Terrified with KK

You started with 66bb (double-straddle) effective.

Raise preflop is standard, lol at the 4 callers but that is live nlh.

Flop is as good as it gets for you as OR; I would cbet, ~80-100 .

As played flop, turn call seems fine.

River, probably raise/fold ~200. I mean, for sure I raise ~200, not sure if in game I am capable of folding to a shove but, from the comfort of my desk, I think that would be the correct play.

Sounds like a horrible table with this many good tough players on it, imo.

Honestly, I find preflop very tough with these stack sizes. Our preflop raise is offering the main Villain decent IO of 21+:1 (albeit OOP) and sets up a fairly meh SPR of ~6.5 HU a ~5 3ways (very awkward). I'd probably either raise way more or perhaps even attempt a tricky overlimp if the next three guys are at all aggro. The more comfortable you are in awkward postflop spots against tough opponents the more cool you'll be with your sizing, but it mostly sets up a world of hurt for me and my comfort zone.

I think I would mostly bet small on the flop to protect against naked Ax and ~2 outers (it is a mistake to give the world a free card to beat us in a huge pot, imo). Like $80.

Also calling the turn.

I treat the lol river bet as a check. Honestly, I'm way out of my comfort zone in a huge pot against the best player in the room. If we have an aggro image, I'd guess a shove ain't bad attempting to rep A high (credible, imo) to get paid off by a boat. With my nitty image I probably go super small in an attempt to get paid off (although is the best player in the room really paying me off?) and of course puke all over the table if shoved on.

Gifthistable/environmentisworkingforyou,stay,otherwise,tablechange,imoG

I raise bigger, there's $34 in the pot already and 4 blinds behind us. $50 is roughly 1.5x pot, raising to $10 with 2 blinds would be 2.5x pot.
Esp. with a low effective BB and an amazing player in one of the blinds, it's difficult to go too big with KK. We should mostly just get stacked if he has AA, or refuses to fold and hits.

As played I would probably bet small on the flop (like 50 again), but I don't mind a check.

Turn, I guess I call.

River is a weird spot, I guess we are supposed to raise to at least 100 but I might just sigh call and look like a fish.
The big problem is I think he can bet 99 here (would expect it to be bigger though) and then decide to turn it into a bluff if he thinks we have a better overpair when we raise.

But 99 isn't a bluff it's the second nuts isn't it? Tough to turn that into a bluff!

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Bigger pre. Rest is fine. I don't see the point of a raise on the river?

BTW, I am not betting that flop into four players w/ two "pros." They can make our life miserable knowing how rare it is for us to have a 7. Bet flop if you are willing to put a lot more $ in.

I would just call the river.

When a Villain cold 4bets AA, it's not a sign per se that he's a very good player. He could be, but you don't have to be a genius to 4bet AA.

I was going to say that you should have raised smaller pre, but then you got 4 callers, so yeah.

You could check or bet small flop.

When villain bets 10, it's not a sign of a good player. It could be a blocking bet from an underpair or a full house of 33s that got counterfeited or he could be trying to induce. Regardless, it's not a good line IMO. There are still so many 9x to get value from that you should raise and revaluate vs raise.

I say re-evaluate, because even though the raise could be 7x, there are some people who might be overplaying 9x there.

I don't think 9x even calls a raise, but 99 will (because he won't be able to fold it at that point) as well as a 7 of course.

I agree that he's not a good player if he's betting 10 into 470 otr. It looks more like a fish trying to get someone to raise his 7x or maybe 99.

I think on the river the best plan is for Hero to raise to whatever he was going to bet if checked to.

Yeh, my bad ... I meant a generic TT/88/66 type hand and not 99 which hit top full on the turn and is basically the nuts given how often H has a 7x.

Why? What worse calls? Why bet if checked to?

There's def. some possibility this is true, but given how high he plays there's more chance than normal that V knows it looks fishy and has expectations/plans for H raising to different sizings and/or live tells.
And then there's some chance it's just "I don't care about the money, and I'm going to rip it way too often if H raises and/or don't care if it looks fishy when I show T9 when called"

Both of which lean me towards, while it might be fishy and look fishy ... V probably isn't going to respond in normal fishy ways (Eg. calling a raise to 200 with 66, because it's a FH).

i wouldn't expect him to call with anything at all that we beat, which is why I would just call.

Also, a guy who flashes around 100K bundles on him a plays 100/200 doesn't really mean he's the best player in the room by far, but there was a time when I wasn't that good and I also thought 99% of the other players in my games were "good", but then the better I became only proved all these guys were just recreational fish (same thing with playing in higher games, still mostly fish, just fish with more money).

I would iso tighter than normal with 4 players left to act as well as the limper (probably pitching hands like KXs, and weaker offsuit Broadways). Gp bigger than 4x over the limp (to prevent what happened from happening).

I see a lot of people saying bet small on the river, and I can see the arguments for it, but I would check. You've still got time to get value from QQ-88 (that's assuming that people are playing that weakly preflop with those hands).

River is a clear bet (-fold). The minbet is a typical online fish trick; it's a red herring and you should just ignore it completely.

V can be pretty wide here getting better than 4/1 preflop. This is 9x more often than 7x from combinations alone, and 9x will Zeebo.

Combination-wise, we lose to maybe 8 combos (3x 99, 1x each of A7/K7/97/87/76) so need at least 8 combos to call if we bet. 3x A9, 2x K9, 3x Q9, 3x J9, 3x T9, 3x 98 and not to mention any 88 and TT out there...sure you can play around with discounting quite a few of those for various reasons but it still seems a clear value bet (raise).

Again, I agree it's possible V is bad and doing normal bad things ... but to just assume he's terrible and will respond in the normal terrible ways seems very optimistic.

Assuming we get to the river with roughly: 99+/AsKs/AsQs ... I find it hard to believe KK is a clear bet/fold. That might be a great exploit vs. random 1-3 fish, but I'd rather check KK than bet/fold I think.
No idea if a solver can tell us anything useful due to going 666 ways, but my first guess would be it'd want to turn the two NFD hands into a bluff and balance that with AsA/KsK (maybe QsQ) hands.

The players who fold full houses are a very rare breed. Population has an overcalling bias, not an overfolding bias.

I don't care how fishy the $10 bet is here. V is described as a good player -- the best in the room. Unless H is a maniac, V is never calling with worse. Bet (raise) / fold is just ridiculous on so many levels.

Seriously, are any of you calling w/ worse?

I agree but when the board is 77793r and someone raises, it's gonna look a lot like quads so they'll fold more FH's with three 7's vs a single paired board.

No one ever believes you 've got quads!

The other day, I got 3 streets of value from 99 with AA on KKKxx board.

What scares me more is that this was 5 way, so there's a higher chance someone hit the 7.

Let's say you are in villain's shoes and you bed third pot with 9x. Someone raises you. Are you sure you don't call, because someone might be doing it with 9x?

How about if you have TT or JJ? Do you fold vs raise?

Villain could easily be playing any PP this way and is trying to fake out Hero with the mini blocker.

I'd like to meet the alleged crusher who's going to fold a mid PP when Hero "raises" to $150.

Folding a decent pocket pair to a small river bet would be the fishy play.

Me and my super nitty image might not get paid off by worse.

But Banana and his image?

GourhandlookslikeAhigh,imoG