Terrified with KK

1/3/6/12 not just 1/3.

We start the hand with 66 big blinds.

Nobody said this. Calling the $10 river bet is terrible. I am treating it as a check, as should you.

As I said. I'm going bet bet shove on this run out. As played. I'm treating the river as a check and raising(betting).

I know it's your point. But it's based solely on feels.

It's a great trick if you can make a micro bet that screws with people's head so much that they don't realise it's a check and make changes to their play accordingly.

By the way, a raise would probably fold out J3, but it's still a raise all day long. 9x, JJ-TT and maybe even some hands like 88 are calling a huge amount of time.

I understand that.

So if it's a straddle to 6, then it goes blind 12, blind 24, then blind 48, does that mean we have to jam for 800 with A8s because "we only have 15 bb's"?

I think the call otr was fine.

I don't know how we're supposed to play 15 bbs but it most certainly means we're only sitting on 15 bbs. Not on $800 at 1/3.

Would you check back the river? That's really all that matters here.

I would check back the river unless I'm willing to call a shove, which I am not, so, yes.

Incredible.

Maybe his being a pro makes it more of a bluff spot for him, but so few people bluff/shove here that it just isn't worth it. In my player pool, I am probably one of two players who would bluff/shove there, but only vs. certain opponents. We still don't know H's image to V, either.

This whole discussion is kind of frustrating to read, to be honest. How people don't want to raise this effective rivercheck is beyond me. If you really think V is never gonna call a raise with worse than KK, after hero just used an extremely weak/underrepped line and is now basically being dared to bluffraise by this 10 dollar bet, then it's just no use discussing this any further.

By the way, I do understand OP not wanting to call a shove and thus succumbing to this mind trick, fed by his fear of the famous pro waving around 100k. If I'm being honest, I would probably be susceptible to the same shenanigans, when I just wanna hold on to my stack and not be put on the spot. But here in the safety of my own home, this not being my own money, I'm certainly objective enough to know we just have to raise the river here as played. I'm actually amazed that not everyone feels the same way.

Huh? We have $750 back on the flop. If we c-bet 1/3 pot, around $80, we're still plenty deep enough that a raise shouldn't be all-in, and we don't need to 3B all-in.

That's even worse than the 9x and As3s I thought he could likely have.

I think the $10 bet into a $500 pot when we still have more than a PSB behind is rarely going to be a huge hand, and is almost always some sort of blocker bet, hoping to get called by ace-high when there are trips on board. Looks like he put you squarely on AK.

My only personal experience which is relevant to your question - I once played in a 1/3 game that became 1/3/6 (straddle), blind 12/blind 24 (no option to re-open the betting for the $12 or $24).

It was still a $100 min / $500 max buy-in. Six of the 9 players at the table were sitting over $1k-$2k deep. What was amazing was how many players came to the table with less than $500, like only $100-$200, went broke in 1 hand, and then ran to the cage to re-load.

I don't remember anyone jamming a big stack (over $1k) with a hand like A8s, but I do remember the better players in the game started to slow-play big pocket pairs and hands that would ordinarily be 4B over a blind bet, by just flatting the $24, because the players in the blinds were squeezing relentlessly.

That would lead me to believe that V can't have too strong a hand when he flats hero's raise pre, especially given the raise size, only $50. A good player would surely expect that pot to go multi-way, and would likely raise off 99+. I don't think he's showing up with AA, 99, 33, or 7x all too often.

am late to the thread but a couple things.

flatting the river when he bets 10 is hilariously bad. you guys are way over thinking things vs someone described as good. its basically a check. our hand looks like ace high to an unsophisticated hand reader (that doesn't realize we aren't going to peel that when the turn is 4 ways lol), the guy is probably betting something that beats ace high when u see this sizing, not going for some elaborate induction vs a range that has showdown value always.

this one is more directed specifically at banana. a few times you've described different villains as high stakes players / crushers playing in your 1/3 game. there's just no way these are all actually accurate descriptions. i'm sure they want the table to think all of that, but anyone that's good at poker and has the roll to play high or even reasonable stakes isn't going to your local 1/3 game to pass the time and grind 30$ an hour. that just isn't going to happen, certainly not at a frequency where you would play 10s of hours or multiple times with them. i would take anything people say in the poker room with a grain of salt in general.

^ nah sorry they are actually crushing the game. Ive seen their graphs and gone for drinks with them once or twice. Not sure what you and Overt find bad about V's line though. V was waiting for the bigger game to open and this was the only table running.. I'm not sure whats so hard to believe, I'm not going to dox myself and say who he is but he's in the realm of players like Andrew Neeme.

again, there just is no way you've played with multiple actual high stakes crushers in the past year at 1/3 live lol. pretty much anyone i know that even plays 5/10 isn't going to sit 1/3, what you're saying would be the equivalent of you showing up to the casino and playing 10 cent / 20 cent, maybe lower in this particular case. it can happen as a once off, but its unlikely to me you've run into several people doing this

i thought his line was worse when i thought the pot was 3b. pre is uh probably a large torch, turn is too big but can see it being +ev with assumptions, river should set him up to get rekt but ended up being by far his best option. i think you're outlevelling yourself if you think the guy is betting 2.5% of pot to get a b3b in vs a random 1/3 player.

Yea no one who plays pro has ever come back to 1/3 to play with old friends you're such a genius, you have us all figured out, why does no one else see your true potential I wonder?

The absolute level of condescending narcissism that comes through your posts...

why do you think that's condescending?

i posted it because in alot of your hh threads you seem to make large errors vs people you perceive as good / better than you. my point was maybe these guys aren't as great as you think that they are, not to mock your stakes or whatever it is you think that i'm doing.

Late to the party

I would shove river

Calling is lol

In what universe do you think that ovecalling a 4.1x raise with J3s vs the effective HJ is a good play from the BB? Like if you you are in the BB facing a 2.5x raise vs the Button J3s is a ****ing fold.

There's also no good player in the history of the universe employing the 2.2% river bet. LIKE WTF IS THIS ****?

A proper blocking bet when you think your hand is good but don't want to be blown off it by a bluff is usually 25-33%.

Just because someone appears on TV or shows up in the casino with lots of money doesn't mean they are good. There are also fish on TV and high stakes.

EDIT: If I sat down with someone like Nieme or Owen and he played like that (and I 've sat with Owen - he doesn't play like that), I would be thinking that they are just donking off some money. You may argue that a good player might be deviating vs worse players by expanding their range, but this isn't the spot to do so. A good player would be mostly adjusting by widening in LP.

Regardless of the reason a good player plays this way, when you overcall J3s so that you can play in a multiway pot, you put yourself in tough positions because your extra wide range is a load weighing you down. You then face the problems every fish is facing in the game which is that some point they have to overcall, overfold or overbluff.

People are as good as their play!

This all really depends on if villain is the best player in the room or not. This could be a bad read. But if a very good live player makes this bet that looks like a blocker bet, I'm just calling and holding my kings ready to muck them when I get shown a 7. Standard lol live poker player makes a blocker bet and I'm ripping this for value.

I personally do the fake blocker bet on the river with the nuts/effective nuts a lot to induce bluffs or a thin value shove fairly often. I do it in spots where I know villain has nothing or like a bottom two pair type hand though, probably wouldn't try it against someone I'm putting on a full house when I have quads though I'd just go for value.

Why can’t he hero with a nine or a pocket pair?

Would you?

If I thought a 9 was good and OP was FOS, raising with ace high, thinking he was bluffing me off a chop, I might. If I somehow got here with an over-pair, like TT or JJ, I probably would.

The way OP played his hand, it looks like V was putting him on AK and betting for super thin value. If we think V could take this line with A3s, or 9x, or 88, we could flat call with 44-66 and 88, and raise TT+.

Don't know how we can get to the river the way we did and not raise our over-pairs.

You've asked this a few times now. Why is this relevant? There's a lot of things worse players do I wouldn't do, we kind of prey on that. The idea that everyone gets to this river with just 99 and 7x is ridiculous given how the hand played.

It's very relevant. According to OP, he is the best player in the room. You guys are dismissing that because of one hand. So, if you great, non-fishy players are calling a river bet w/ a 9 or TT/JJ or some other pair, then betting the river makes sense, so knowing what you guys would do versus a "worse" player is important.

I don't think he's calling with worse, so I don't see the point of raising.