Opening raises

Opening raises

I played some live poker the last 2 weeks. One week I opened bigger at 1-2 like $12 to $15 on average. Last night I tried making smaller opening raises, in the area of $8 to $10, but seemed to have a lot of tough post decisions. I know a lot of this is table dependant but what would u all say is a good opening raise at 1-2 and 2-5? I prefer to play pots with less people so don't mind if it's head up or 3 handed. I don't really play 6 handed pots well most times. Thank you

24 July 2024 at 03:34 PM
Reply...

17 Replies


"Standard" is 2-3xBB +1BB per limper. Adjust as needed to get to HU or 3-way. Early position probably needs a bigger raise to get thru more players. Late position should be bigger organically due to the possible additional limpers.

My experience with 1-2 is that these numbers are low, but that is mostly table dependent. $10 might get the job done, while $20 will get 4 or more callers, sometimes.


by AzOther1 P

"Standard" is 2-3xBB +1BB per limper. Adjust as needed to get to HU or 3-way. Early position probably needs a bigger raise to get thru more players. Late position should be bigger organically due to the possible additional limpers.

My experience with 1-2 is that these numbers are low, but that is mostly table dependent. $10 might get the job done, while $20 will get 4 or more callers, sometimes.

It seems to me when I play more hands then would be considered optimal and I raise lot bigger I get into a better groove and play alot of pots hu or 3 handed. I know it's gonna create more variance, but rake could be less and I should be able to take down more pots. Like I can't sit back and play 15% of hands live, I mentally check out then I play bad. But if I raise small on strong and weak hands I will have to play a bunch of 5 or 6 handed pots.
So I would like to play a lot of hands and raise bigger. You think this would be ok live? LAG I guess they call it. Works great for me online PLO.


With no table info I typically raise 5x + 1BB per limper at 1/2 or 4X +1BB per limper at 2/5. Depending upon the action/lineup/opponents in the pot I will adjust this either up or down.


by Moneyline P

With no table info I typically raise 5x + 1BB per limper at 1/2 or 4X +1BB per limper at 2/5. Depending upon the action/lineup/opponents in the pot I will adjust this either up or down.

This is basically my heuristic too, and then I go up or down depending upon the table dynamics.

The one caveat is if there's a "standard size raise" at the table that's close to this, I'll default, e.g. if at 1/2, the table default is 12 and not 10, I'll just do 12, so I don't somehow stick out like a sore thumb.


I usually try to bet the size that most often gets me heads up. I have been at 1/3 tables where i gotta go $30 to get that done.

Ill also say certain spots like fron the SB with 5 limpers, theres $15 of dead money out there, going $30 to try and take it down is almost like a wonky 1/3 version of a gto 2.5x raise, as its $30 to win $15 rather than $8 to win $4, so the ratio is the same


Lower stakes the rake is high so I would tend to go bigger 4-5x and have tighter ranges accordingly.

Higher stakes where the rake is proportionally smaller or I'm paying time I'll go 2.5-3x.

If I can adjust exploitatively because I'm playing w/ people who won't notice and/or punish(which will be common at low stakes) I'll do silly things like vary my size according to the hand I have.


Like my plan would be to create bigger pots and make the players make more costly mistakes. So bigger raises, hu or 3 handed and bigger pots to win. Sound like that is possible?


Kind of what others say, except I'd default to 12 or 8 at 1-2 because the rake goes up in increments of 10, in most casinos, so the absolute worst case is raising to 10 and getting any calls.
In theory you should go lower to have more SPR post (see also the goat GG strat.) but in general 1-2 players are idiots who have no idea what calling ranges are supposed to look like and don't 3bet anywhere near enough (the biggest reason not to bet big) so just go 12 (6bb) and you won't be punished anywhere near enough to make it worse than other options.

Also I'd go bigger or just limp (or fold) from the blinds, like you get 2-4 limpers and you have AQ/AJ in the SB then either go big (16-21+) or limp. In general (IMO) you'll get punished a lot more for going small than for going "too big".
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people raise to 7 from the blinds with AA/KK against a bunch of limpers and everyone calls and they lose, dito. stupid small 3bet sizes and I've also lost count of the number of times I've seen someone mega raise limpers to $30 or more from a blind and still get at least one limp/call (V says T8s is my favourite hand so I had to call and see a flop).


1/2 - 5x
1/3 - 4-5x
2/5 - 4x
5/10 - 3x


by johnnyBuz P

1/2 - 5x
1/3 - 4-5x
2/5 - 4x
5/10 - 3x

But as I say my goal is to get the hands heads up or three-handed. As this is where I feel like I have the most strength. I also don't mind playing the bigger pots because I feel I have an advantage and if somebody makes mistakes in bigger pots it's going to be more money for me in the long run. So I'm looking to make bigger raises pre-flop. At one too I even consider $15 as an opening raise. At 1:3 I would probably stay with the same 15. At 25 I would be looking mostly 20 to 25. Do you think this is a viable strategy


Try this thread from the best of collection for a ton of discussion on this.


The higher the raise, the tighter your range.

Having QJs OTB in a 5 way $50 pot is a great result.

Having QJs in a $50 pot HU is a disaster equity wise.


by Buster65 P

The higher the raise, the tighter your range.

This assume you are playing robots.
I understand what you are trying to say but there are enough 1-2 players who will openly tell you "My favourite hand is T8s and if I'm up I'm calling a $50 raise preflop with it" ... to repeat what I said before in the thread it's _much_ more difficult to go too big preflop at 1-2 than it is to go too small (with the notable exception that GG is the goat and he plays different from all of us non-goats).


by illiterat P

This assume you are playing robots.
I understand what you are trying to say but there are enough 1-2 players who will openly tell you "My favourite hand is T8s and if I'm up I'm calling a $50 raise preflop with it" ... to repeat what I said before in the thread it's _much_ more difficult to go too big preflop at 1-2 than it is to go too small (with the notable exception that GG is the goat and he plays different from all of us non-goats).

Yes. This is my belief also. As I move up to 5-10 then I am sure I would get tapped alot making raises that are too big. I just think low limit players play big pots really badly.


by illiterat P

This assume you are playing robots.
I understand what you are trying to say but there are enough 1-2 players who will openly tell you "My favourite hand is T8s and if I'm up I'm calling a $50 raise preflop with it" ... to repeat what I said before in the thread it's _much_ more difficult to go too big preflop at 1-2 than it is to go too small (with the notable exception that GG is the goat and he plays different from all of us non-goats).

The bigger the raise size, the tighter your range. The worse/looser your opponents, the looser your range. Its competing factors that sorta end up with you playing somewhat the same range (a bit tighter) but with increasingly huge bet sizes pre the worse Vs are.


by jungmit P

But as I say my goal is to get the hands heads up or three-handed. As this is where I feel like I have the most strength. I also don't mind playing the bigger pots because I feel I have an advantage and if somebody makes mistakes in bigger pots it's going to be more money for me in the long run. So I'm looking to make bigger raises pre-flop. At one too I even consider $15 as an opening raise. At 1:3 I would probably stay with the same 15. A

It’s just a general heuristic to keep in mind that you should adjust based on the overall meta/dynamic of your table (and readjust as players come and go if the meta changes). If players at 1/2 are willing to call $15 OOP with trash like Q9o then of course size up.

As you move up, 3bets become far more common, so if you’re opening your entire range to $25 from EP you’re gonna get exploited by squeezes and lighter 3bets. Smaller raises make defending 3bets IP more viable, especially if BB is only 3x’ing a $15 BTN raise for example. It also gives more flexibility for 4bets as everything grows geometrically.

But it’s all villain dependent. If I’m BTN and a fishy rec is BB, I might default to $20-25 on the BTN vs. $15 vs. a competent reg with the willingness to 3bet wider BB vs. BTN.


by Tomark P

The bigger the raise size, the tighter your range.

Why?

Spoiler
Show

By far the biggest from a theory POV is because everyone else can make more money by 3betting you. This is not how 95%+ of 1-2 or 1-3 players respond to opens of 7.5bb, 10bb or even 12.5bb.

I once saw a guy always open to $35 at 1-2 and people _still_ didn't 3bet much, they mostly worked out to limp/call a decent range that didn't need to fold all the time postflop.

Yes, if you start opening "a lot" to $100 or even $50 people will probably work it out enough to limp/shove but there's almost no chance anybody adjusts correctly to the difference between $8 and $12.


NOTE: I have played some 2-5 games where people were 3betting a lot, and open raising to more than $15 was probably bad.


Reply...