Weird hand with kid, too premium to fold river?

Weird hand with kid, too premium to fold river?

1/3 NLHE 5 handed

Game is overnight Sunday and is close to breaking, only game going in a quiet sleepy room, not much taking, 2 nits, game is on life support basically. Me and V both have about 600$.

V - only reason I'm still here. New to the game and has no clue. Routinely misreads hands, clicks buttons and resembles a child playing with a new toy: gambling addiction. Kid has been at the room every night for weeks, not sure how much he's down. His betting range is usually premium but I've seen him randomly 4-bet a hand like A8o pre.


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H sees Q T and opens 10 UTG, CO folds, BTN nit folds, V calls SB, BB folds. HU IP. When V calls he misreads my 10$ as a straddle and tries to raise to 15, but doesn't announce raise so the 15 becomes a 10$ call.

Flop - K J 8

V checks, H bets 15, V calls

Turn 50 - 9

V check, H bets 20, V calls

River 90 (555 back) - 4

V check, H bets 35, V x/r to 200...

20 August 2024 at 03:56 AM
Reply...

13 Replies


When he put out 15 that should have been a raise to 17 imo.

River seems close, I would lean fold but I could be convinced that calling this guy in particular is profitable.


PRE - looks fine, though I'd like a larger open size, to $15.

FLOP - ordinarily I'd like the c-bet to be 1/2 pot here, but knowing V wanted to raise pre, I like that you went a little larger.

TURN - looks good.

RIVER - think we can bet larger for value, like 1.3x pot. This small sizing is going to look weak, and induce bluff raises. I'd rather take this sizing when our hand is super nutted and V is fairly capped.

Hard to believe V flat calls turn with a flush when we bet a little small, and then checks again on the river. I think he's spazzing here a lot, and our hand is too strong to fold. Just gotta pay him off if he has it.

I think he's going to have AKo or AQo with the Ac here a lot.


You say he routinely clicks buttons but your only example is preflop. There is a huge difference between clicking buttons preflop and clicking buttons on the river. Most fish who do the former will absolutely not do the latter.

EDIT: Just now saw the response above me. This could definitely be a flush. The way this line makes sense is that Villain saw Hero’s turn sizing and thought Hero must not have a good enough hand to call a raise, so he slowplays. Then of course once it’s the river he raises instead of closing the action.


I don't see anything about him specifically suggesting he's capable of these huge river bluffs. He's been playing every day for weeks but he still doesn't have a clue? If I've never seen him bluff like that (either otr, or anywhere post flop) I would just fold. I would fold readless, and I would fold to most players. I would only call vs someone who habitually tries to bluff people out of pots like that. If he's dumb enough to do it with two pair, good for him he won the battle but we're likely gonna win the war.


by CallMeVernon P

You say he routinely clicks buttons but your only example is preflop. There is a huge difference between clicking buttons preflop and clicking buttons on the river. Most fish who do the former will absolutely not do the latter.

EDIT: Just now saw the response above me. This could definitely be a flush. The way this line makes sense is that Villain saw Hero’s turn sizing and thought Hero must not have a good enough hand to call a raise,

He clicks buttons a lot pre but he's mainly a loose passive and straightforward player, I think he just gets bored and he sometimes tries something. He'll donk out for instance with strong top pair, check call chasing all draws, but we had a conversation earlier in the night about how to play AK given this HH:

V raises UTG to 6, some guy IP makes it 25, V calls OOP. Flop 8-6-3r. V checks, guy bets flop, V calls, turn brick, V x calls, river brick V x/folds AKo and asks how he should have played it (guy IP had 99). We explain he needs to play it more aggressively to represent AA or KK and that the guy can have AQ/AJ so AK is sometimes ahead. Later in a hand with me V 3-bet me OOP, I called with JJ (dubious) flop came low ragged like 7-5-2, V shoved and I called it off with SPR 1. He had AK and whiffed and said that my advice I gave him was bad.


I limp in but our small raise got this HU in position with the player we want, so great result.

I probably cbet smaller but whatever.

Think I'm ok with turn and river.

If this guy can click buttons postflop for large $$$ or massively overvalue, then I think I lean to a sigh call.

ETA: +1 to what Vernon said regarding whether he's capable of clicking buttons for big $$$ on later streets (versus lol small $ preflop); this is the key read we need for our decision, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG


We explain he needs to play it more aggressively to represent AA or KK and that the guy can have AQ/AJ so AK is sometimes ahead.


Lessons are extra.

Seriously, why would you do this?


by Stupidbanana P

V - only reason I'm still here. New to the game and has no clue. Routinely misreads hands, clicks buttons and resembles a child playing with a new toy: gambling addiction.

What do you mean by 'gambling addiction'? A lot of stereotype Asian gamblers all fall into the pattern of 'desperate draw chasers, regardless of the price' or 'calling with any pair, hoping to hit weird two pairs of sets, regardless of the price'. I do not see a lot of these gamblers being overly aggressive on the river though. They get paid when they do have a hand, and people don't believe them.


I think your turn and river bets are too small, especially the turn bet. I think there are lots of worse hands that will pay off a bigger bet on the turn. So because of this, I can't fold the river to a guy with a tendency to sometimes button click "to try something". If he has a flush, he's getting my money.


by Homey D. Clown P

I think your turn and river bets are too small, especially the turn bet. I think there are lots of worse hands that will pay off a bigger bet on the turn. So because of this, I can't fold the river to a guy with a tendency to sometimes button click "to try something". If he has a flush, he's getting my money.

This. OP should just bet 2/3 or 3/4 turn and river and fold to a raise. The small sizing's don't really achieve much. These guys that pump fake with KQo preflop hate folding.


Result:

Spoiler
Show

I fold, V shows red AA and says he thought he had the Ac


Your read on V suggests he's going to have some random nonsense plays. I could see folding worse than top 2P here, but I can't see folding top 2P or better, and definitely not a straight, when V takes this line.


turn and river sizing don't really make any sense on your end


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