88's in capped pot.
The LJ has been at the table for an hour. He has open limped and over limped several hands. He has raised once and had KK's. He is a mid 50's guy.
The SB is a Lag pre but plays reasonably post flop.
I should have a tight image.
The LJ opens, CO calls, I 3 bet from the button with 8s8h, SB calls, folded back to LJ who caps and all call. I didn't feel great about 3 betting and was not shocked when he capped. My gut told me his open raise was strong but my instinct was to 3 bet since he opened from the LJ. Should I have just called?
QsJc3d...Checked to the LJ who bets, the CO folds. The action is on me. I think his most likely holding is AA's or KK's. He could have QQ's or JJ's. I don't know if he would cap AK or bet it UIP 4 ways. He doesn't seem the type to be capping lightly. I still have a player behind me to act.
Do I call getting a great price? If I call and the SB folds do I call again on the turn in the hopes that the LJ has AK?
7 Replies
Well one thing is for sure! If you call flop....you call to the river. I mean you called the flop hoping he has AK, what changes with turn and river? Also, SB called ur 3bet pre, and that flop smashes his range.
Most weak players who open limp a lot when they raise typically have a big starting hand. Whether you call or three bet probably doesn’t make much of a difference. I would call the flop and if I don’t improve fold. Folding the flop might be a better play. Trying to pick off this type of villain overplaying AK is not going to be very profitable.
Can we even consider folding pre here?
The ideal situation with a mid-pocket-pair is you either want to be heads up against a probable weak hand or you want to get tons of action if you flop a set.
If you cold-call pre you most likely get a 5-way pot. Unless you've seen a LOT of huge pots built postflop with betting and raising that's not enough to justify putting in 2 bets pre to setmine.
If you 3-bet and don't get 4-bet, your postflop plan is to show down your 88 unless the villains prove to you they have you beat. There will be 10sb in the pot and you'll possibly have to put 5sb more in the pot to show down your 88 so you'd need 33% equity against a range that would bet, bet, bet. Too lazy to pull up Flopzilla right now but I doubt we have anywhere near 33% equity against LJ's raising range and CO's coldcalling range on that board.
As played, there are 18sb in the pot when the action gets to you on the flop. You're 24 to 1 to turn an 8 so you're probably seeing the turn as long as the action isn't SB raise/LJ 3!. Assuming you call, SB folds, and we expect LJ to bet both the turn and the river, you're going to have to call 2 big bets to win, what, 11? That means you need to be good 15% of the time, right? Does he have exactly AK 15% of the time when the action goes bet/bet/bet?
The LJ has been at the table for an hour. He has open limped and over limped several hands. He has raised once and had KK's. He is a mid 50's guy.
The SB is a Lag pre but plays reasonably post flop.
I should have a tight image.
The LJ opens, CO calls, I 3 bet from the button with 8s8h, SB calls, folded back to LJ who caps and all call. I didn't feel great about 3 betting and was not shocked when he capped. My gut told me his open raise was
Half the hands he can have already crushed you and other half is near a coin flip .
You probably near the bottom Of your range .
And u have another players behind you that can $h!t over you .
I think it’s ok to let it go .
If u would played it I think the best play is to raise and hoping no other money is put in the pot .
The LJ has been at the table for an hour. He has open limped and over limped several hands. He has raised once and had KK's. He is a mid 50's guy.
The SB is a Lag pre but plays reasonably post flop.
I should have a tight image.
The LJ opens, CO calls, I 3 bet from the button with 8s8h, SB calls, folded back to LJ who caps and all call. I didn't feel great about 3 betting and was not shocked when he capped. My gut told me his open raise was
I would probably fold 88 on the flop given the PF action, this texture, and the fact that we have a laggy player behind us, but it's certainly close. I don't think that PF is close and would 3bet this every day and twice on Sunday. This hand plays so much better 3 ways than 5 ways and you can set yourself up to have the best relative and absolute position by 3betting.
Half the hands he can have already crushed you and other half is near a coin flip .
You probably near the bottom Of your range .
And u have another players behind you that can $h!t over you .
I think it’s ok to let it go .
If u would played it I think the best play is to raise and hoping no other money is put in the pot .
This. I think we should consider where we are in our range and what other hands we have that can continue on this flop. 99 and TT have better backdoor draws that lead to an open ender. AK has a draw that can lead towards the stone nuts and potentially beat a hand like KK or AQs with just one pair. 88 might be the worst hand you have here.
I like the decision to 3bet personally, it’s too much of a parlay to try to get this 5 ways for two bets
I would probably fold 88 on the flop given the PF action, this texture, and the fact that we have a laggy player behind us, but it's certainly close. I don't think that PF is close and would 3bet this every day and twice on Sunday. This hand plays so much better 3 ways than 5 ways and you can set yourself up to have the best relative and absolute position by 3betting.
I think pre flop is close. My experience with players who do a lot of limping and open raise infrequently tend to have a very strong raising range. I instinctively 3 bet in this situation since my read of this guy was off a small sample size. My gut told me after I 3 bet SB is gonna call and the original raiser is gonna cap. As it turned out the hand played out the worst it could have. I don't think calling and seeing a flop IP is bad with this particular holding given my current read. I can still win without hitting a set. In general this hand does play better with a 3 bet.
