ex-President Trump
I assume it's still acceptable to have a Trump thread in a Politics forum?
So this is an obvious lie - basically aimed at low-info Boomers like my religions aunts. I have two questions:
a) Is anyone here who supports Trump bothered by lies like this?
b) Does anyone know what he's even talking about here? Like is there some grain of truth that he's embellishing on bigly?
Outside of some special cases (with the Biden admin exploited legally in full) it's simply not up to executive power to allocate financial resources of the nation.
Appropriation stays entirely with the house (with the Senate needed to agree).
Not a dollar should be spent without explicit congressional approval (in theory) for that expense.
That's the American constitution
I understand that, and I get the connection you're making, but it still was not exactly an appropriation of funds or the spending of any money.
If you loaned someone money a year ago and then today told him "hey, don't worry about that loan I gave you, consider it a gift", I wouldn't consider that you spent that money today, and I don't think most people would interpret it that way.
Thanks for helping me understand why some people thought it was unconstitutional though.
I understand that, and I get the connection you're making, but it still was not exactly an appropriation of funds or the spending of any money.
If you loaned someone money a year ago and then today told him "hey, don't worry about that loan I gave you, consider it a gift", I wouldn't consider that you spent that money today, and I don't think most people would interpret it that way.
Thanks for helping me understand why some people thought it
If you lend money ON BEHALF OF OTHER PEOPLE, and then you forfeit the debt, you are spending other people money.
Try to do that in a company with company money, and you sign on the debt relief, and let's see how it works in court when stakeholder sue you.
Btw SCOTUS agreed it was unconstitutional and stopped it (for the parts where it was unconstitutional).
Biden v Nebraska (2023)
Race, the race being japanese.
They were American citizens, many of them.
Many second and third generations.
And japanese ethnicity is very different from Korean or Chinese ethnicity
Japanese is not a race, at least not in the way race is spoken of in the US.
People here consider Japanese, Koreans and Chinese to be of the same race. They also consider Germans, French, and English to be of the same race. If German people had been put in camps, I don't think anyone would have said it was a racist act.
I know that many were US citizens, that is part of why the action was unreasonable. But I still understand (barely) the fear that led to the action, and that fear had nothing to do with race.
Congress lent the money, not POTUS.
Congress can forfeit the debt, not POTUS.
POTUS attempt to forfeit the debt was an assault on the core pillars of democracy: how the money is spent and who decides is one of the most basic elements of any societal arrangement.
And he tried to violate it in full for hundreds of billions of dollars.
And I have to listen to trump being a threat to democracy lol
No responsibility of the republican party which couldn't come up with anything better than Jeb! ?
I'm on record stating that I expected the republican party to prevent Trump v Biden 2.0, and am disappointed that they let me down.
I'm also okay with the GOP learning this lesson the hard way when Trump wins and continues to make a fool of himself and the GOP loses face as a result. It's the natural cycle of things, and America is strong enough to survive a few shitty election cycles.
It's fun to joke about a world where Trump installs himself as permanent God Emperor of the United States and dismantles all of our institutions from the inside, but I fear some of the regulars here might actually subscribe to the newsletters where that's an actual concern.
Japanese is not a race, at least not in the way race is spoken of in the US.
People here consider Japanese, Koreans and Chinese to be of the same race. They also consider Germans, French, and English to be of the same race. If German people had been put in camps, I don't think anyone would have said it was a racist act.
I know that many were US citizens, that is part of why the action was unreasonable. But I still understand (barely) the fea
Not in the USA in 1942, and FDR order was about ancestry not nationality.
If you lend money ON BEHALF OF OTHER PEOPLE, and then you forfeit the debt, you are spending other people money.
Try to do that in a company with company money, and you sign on the debt relief, and let's see how it works in court when stakeholder sue you.
Btw SCOTUS agreed it was unconstitutional and stopped it (for the parts where it was unconstitutional).
Biden v Nebraska (2023)
Again, I get your point, but I don't think it goes against the letter of the law which is what the most conservative members of the court believe should be used.
That article says that the program was struck down for reasons other than violation of the rule that appropriations must start in the house of representatives.
Chillrob the fear literally had to do with race.
They feared japanese spies could be there, or intended to be in the west coast soon, and they had no other way to determine if you were japanese except race.
I don't know what the bolded is referring to.
But you aren't telling me anything new here, I know what happened and what the criteria was. If you want to say it was based on national ancestry maybe that is more accurate, but it still isn't race. My ancestry is mostly German. No one has ever said I am if German race.
Again, I get your point, but I don't think it goes against the letter of the law which is what the most conservative members of the court believe should be used.
That article says that the program was struck down for reasons other than violation of the rule that appropriations must start in the house of representatives.
If the HEROES act allowed debt forfeit, it would have covered for that but it didn't.
Given it didn't, the power of the purse stays with congress.
Unless congress explicitly allows an expense, you can't spend that money as the executive power, simple as that.
Btw it's incredible and horrifying this wasn't 9-0
I don't know what the bolded is referring to.
But you aren't telling me anything new here, I know what happened and what the criteria was. If you want to say it was based on national ancestry maybe that is more accurate, but it still isn't race. My ancestry is mostly German. No one has ever said I am if German race.
That in 1942 in the USA "asian" wasn't the label it is today.
My wife tells me so many stories about her patients that have Fox on all day and constantly rant about whatever it is they rant about. One of her patients told her that Biden was going to replace cash with crypto and make it so you can't buy guns any more. I have no clue where they get this stuff but, geez.
Congress lent the money, not POTUS.
Congress can forfeit the debt, not POTUS.
POTUS attempt to forfeit the debt was an assault on the core pillars of democracy: how the money is spent and who decides is one of the most basic elements of any societal arrangement.
And he tried to violate it in full for hundreds of billions of dollars.
And I have to listen to trump being a threat to democracy lol
The executive branch absolutely has the power to modify and change the terms of student loan repayments under the HEROES Act, that is not under debate at all. The issue was entirely one of extent and in (the majority but not all of) the court's opinion the order in question overstepped that extent.
If the HEROES Act didn't exist you might have a semblance of a point but given it does the idea that Biden's EO was somehow more of an assault on democracy than the absurdities involved in the "legal" methods that Trump attempted to use to overturn the results of the election is ridiculous.
I'm on record stating that I expected the republican party to prevent Trump v Biden 2.0, and am disappointed that they let me down.
I'm also okay with the GOP learning this lesson the hard way when Trump wins and continues to make a fool of himself and the GOP loses face as a result. It's the natural cycle of things, and America is strong enough to survive a few shitty election cycles.
It's fun to joke about a world where Trump installs hims
This is basically you:
Chillrob the fear literally had to do with race.
They feared japanese spies could be there, or intended to be in the west coast soon, and they had no other way to determine if you were japanese except race.
No, they did not fear because of race they feared those of Japanese decent would be loyal to the nation of Japan.
They did not fear that of all members of a particular race.
Look, I understand that race is basically a social construct anyway, but if, in any other context, I asked you to give me a list of different races found in the world, I am nearly certain that you would not put 'Japanese' in your list, and I am absolutely certain that the majority of Americans in 1942 would not have. Most Americans would not have been able to tell the difference between a Japanese person and a Korean person. They could tell the difference between an Asian person and a white/European person.
My wife tells me so many stories about her patients that have Fox on all day and constantly rant about whatever it is they rant about. One of her patients told her that Biden was going to replace cash with crypto and make it so you can't buy guns any more. I have no clue where they get this stuff but, geez.
Should send Biden round instead, to take notes.
I suppose we could chat about our jobs and hobbies. I've always wanted to learn more about coal mining and WWE.
Completely irrelevant to everything but I seem to remember you posting something like this before so just an FYI: WWE/pro wresting in general is actually one of the more left-leaning sports fandoms in the world and has been for at least a decade or so (it was definitely very different back in the 90s/early 00s).
If the HEROES act allowed debt forfeit, it would have covered for that but it didn't.
Given it didn't, the power of the purse stays with congress.
Unless congress explicitly allows an expense, you can't spend that money as the executive power, simple as that.
Btw it's incredible and horrifying this wasn't 9-0
No, it is not incredible, it was totally expected, and not truly based on the interpretation of the law at all, by any of the justices.
They didn't even truly rule on the law. They voted based on their party affiliation. That is all they do recently.
The republican 'justices' voted against forgiving the loans, and the democratic 'justices' voted against it.
I’ve had Inso on ignore for years and have made it a point to not read any of his nonsense for any reason but seeing what you quoted was….something
‘I don’t want trump’
‘I hope trump wins’
‘ I hope trump wins so all of you who are paranoid find out it was for nothing’
Ya thanks neph
Completely irrelevant to everything but I seem to remember you posting something like this before so just an FYI: WWE/pro wresting in general is actually one of the more left-leaning sports fandoms in the world and has been for at least a decade or so (it was definitely very different back in the 90s/early 00s).
Interesting. Thought it was mostly a redneck thing.
No, it is not incredible, it was totally expected, and not truly based on the interpretation of the law at all, by any of the justices.
They didn't even truly rule on the law. They voted based on their party affiliation. That is all they do recently.
The republican 'justices' voted against forgiving the loans, and the democratic 'justices' voted against it.
The same scotus ruled 9-0 against students having standing on the case (correctly).
The same court just voted 5-4 against Texas being allowed to block the feds from helping immigrants trespass so I think you don't have a proper grasp of current SCOTUS
Completely irrelevant to everything but I seem to remember you posting something like this before so just an FYI: WWE/pro wresting in general is actually one of the more left-leaning sports fandoms in the world and has been for at least a decade or so (it was definitely very different back in the 90s/early 00s).
I could see this even though I can’t see this. And I say this as someone who likes wrestling
I also enjoy the ufc but won’t believe anyone who tells me that’s left leaning
Congress lent the money, not POTUS.
Congress can forfeit the debt, not POTUS.
POTUS attempt to forfeit the debt was an assault on the core pillars of democracy: how the money is spent and who decides is one of the most basic elements of any societal arrangement.
And he tried to violate it in full for hundreds of billions of dollars.
And I have to listen to trump being a threat to democracy lol
Do you have same concerns about the billions of dollars the Presidents have spent on military actions over the last few decades without Congressional declarations of war?
