The costs of trans visibility

I'm sorry, but that's just silly IMO. You're not going to be able to legislate away a child's ability to tell an adult other than one of their parents a secret that said adult won't share, so why should a teacher be precluded from being that adult? Auntie Jane or a coach they really trust or their best friend's parent can keep it between them, but their teacher can't? Who is this helping? Certainly not the child, and I don't think it's really helping the parent either, since the parent won't gain any new information, the child just won't tell the teacher.

You kind of lost me here. What other kind of law are you envisioning and/or concerned about?

If a child tells you a secret and you don't take that information and pass it onto their parents you are somebody who should not be around children.

They are children, their friends should keep the secrets not an adult.

A law that explicitly would prohibit or force a school to engage in an inquisition to determine a child's sexuality or gender identity with the explicit purpose of their own use (to educate the child) OR to pass it onto the parents would be far worse.

This law is relatively innocuous but it's very close. A poorly written law with unintended consequences, which this law could be, makes future shittier laws much more likely.

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Because of the teacher's position of power and authority over the child, which is nevertheless legally subordinate to the parents', and because of the obvious, clear and present danger of paedophiles in the teaching profession and the risks attendant on enabling such persons to force children to 'keep our little secret.'

this

Obviously if the child tells you a secret about the parents (they are being abused) then contact the police.

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forcing teachers to out students is so barbaric that it makes perfect sense the right somehow thinks its a given thing that should happen.

if your kid isn't comfortable telling you something about their sexuality/gender identity be a better parent. kids aren't pets.

Agree, the entire issue at hand is shitty parents who have been duped into believing that being trans is somehow a fad or something that has been done to their child. It is not.

Hence why I said we cannot outlaw bad parenting.

The asymmetry between being gay/lesbian and being trans is teachers can claim they simply do not know for a fact that a child is gay or a lesbian, they should never witness them "being gay." It is private. Being trans is not. This is why people view incorrectly it as being "in their face."

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Is it your belief that in the past trans people have just been led to believe that they are gay or something different or some combination of different things?

Changing pronouns in school is already being ‘out’. The gender radicals should not be supported in their mission to transform children in their image behind the backs of parents.

There is a well documented history of gender non conformity in every culture.

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It’s not a coincidence that the rise in trans identification has correlated with the degree to which it’s currently being celebrated in schools.

Can you please expand upon the "celebration" of being trans in schools? All data points to trans youth being bullied and targeted at a much higher rate than those who are not trans.

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are you arguing that every tomboy and effeminate male are closeted trans?

Many of these kids are being bullied and targeted prior to identifying as trans. The trans identity appeals to the already marginalized. The difference is these kids see increased affirmation and celebration after identifying as trans.

Equating gender identity with sexual orientation or handedness (ffs) is mistaken.

nex benedict was celebrated and supported

had she not been trans would have just been another teenage suicide

many trans speak openly about the love and support they receive from the community - that's a real incentive

Yes, it’s a collective failure that marginalized kids are not receiving enough affirmation, as a human being with immense potential, that they seek it through a gender identity.

No, but there is certainly a major sampling rate error in that somebody may simply not have knowledge of what they actually are.

History of many major courts in Europe, India, and Muslim countries have obvious transgender figures who functioned in the administrative state. This is excluding eunachs.

It is what it is.

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can you name some specific transgender historical figures - i can only think of one which is not a eunuch and even then, it's difficult to suss out whether or not that was genuine or the slander of his rivals who deposed him

if you're thinking of female leaders who were transmen, then there's a few women who took on some traditional male dress and roles but again, that was never viewed as trans, they were never considered or thought of as men, it's that rulers traditionally wear things associated with men so they wanted to keep up with that appearance and to call them trans is not honest and only seeks confirmation bias

also regarding history - imagine if january 6th succeeded and there was no media, and the only recorded history of the event is written by the trump whitehouse - you can imagine just how much their version of events and the reasons for it to be necessary would differ from reality - when we read historical fiction that's essentially what we're reading - so you need to account for bias, exaggeration, and intent in addition to the fact that much of it was written hundreds of years after the fact

https://ucihumanities.medium.com/5-nonbi...

That is not how history is recorded btw.

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Many of us don't think anything related to gender reassignment should be done to minors, regardless of what the parents or doctors say.

it's called "non-binary byzantine figures" and the very first example was not byzantine

this is not valid science

that first example was the one i was thinking of, he's roman btw, he lived a full century before rome even split so calling him byzantine is just lol

he's very problematic because all the info we have on him is from those who killed him who have obvious reason to justify him being a freak and a very weird dude to the people

he did sometimes dress up as a woman, would pretend various men were his husband (that was the controversy, not that he dressed up as a girl sometimes or fornicated but that he was a bottom) - but even if that were the case, this is also someone who told everyone he was the sun god and dressed that part as well - so is he tranfemale or transdeity

nowhere did he ever identify as woman, ask to be called a woman, etc - and this is all based on whether or not we can trust the sources who had obvious incentive to discredit him and make him look foolish

importantly, all surviving depictions of him are as a male dressed up in traditional male garb, sometimes as the sun god, sometimes as the emperor, surely if he identified as a woman and as the most powerful person on the planet who apparently dressed up and cosplayed as a woman all the time he would have also had some busts made depicting him that way as well - the only evidence we have for any of that behavior is not coming from him but from the people who killed him

you can make a case for him being trans, but to act like it's a sure thing is absurd and irresponsible

option 2 is a eunuch, let's just ignore that

3 i'm not familiar with and don't have time to research right now but i'll grant it since they quote him as talking about gender roles etc

4 literally grasping at straws at this one "she had short hair so obviously trans" wtf....

5 another eunuch

this is the problem, you see the "history is full of trans" argued all the time but when pressed for specifics very few can be found

you found 1.5 non binary historical people, 2 eunuchs, and a woman with short hair - not exactly backing up your thesis at all

oh indeed it is - this is very much my wheelhouse, my hobby is reading all the original texts - i'm not making things up as your article above very liberally did

You asked for an example and I quickly googled one and produced it. You can do your own research.

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i have, it's a widely used trope that doesn't hold up to scrutiny when you look for specific examples - and the examples used are people grasping at straws listing all gay people and eunuchs (and now expanded to woman with short hair apparently)

you too fell for it as well, you've heard it enough that you also believed it to be true

there may very well have been plenty of trans in history - but there's scant archaeological nor historical evidence of it actually happening so to claim it as obvious truth is just dishonest

frankly i'm pretty surprised that hadrian, a very openly gay roman emperor (but a top so everyone was cool with it) around elagabulus' time, wasn't listed as well, so kudos to that omission i guess