The costs of trans visibility

The costs of trans visibility

Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....

For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and

. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.

What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.

We need to do better.

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30 June 2023 at 04:48 PM
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6813 Replies

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by originalgangster P

Beautiful strawman. You should be proud of yourself.

I'm literally just trying to get you guys to explain how your bizarre gender ideology works.


by Trolly McTrollson P

I'm literally just trying to get you guys to explain how your bizarre gender ideology works.

Take what any western country would have done in 1955 as the answer.

Do you know humanity existed before trans activists did?


by ganstaman P

Also, I've let lots of mean posting go in this thread and forum from people of all political bents. But I don't allow transphobia.


Let's say there is a poster that constantly posts stuff like this:

"Do you think that maybe this is because its more acceptable to be gay or is your hypothesis that sucking dick is just that freakin cool?"

That's mean and insulting but they can do it over and over and over. (and we know why.)

Someone else comes in with one transphobic post and they are banned.

Do you not see an issue?

FYI my opinions on the trans issue are minimal. I don't care at all. But the bias here on who is allowed to post what is something else.

Edit: Exhibit B. Allowed of course.

"God, you are such a whiney little ****. Every mod that tells you to shut the **** up gets personally attacked. No one asked for your evaluation of his professional skills but I certainly trust them over a megalomaniac that believes his 6 month personal experience in an industry gives him some type of expert status that we should bow down to his ridiculous opinions."


by Trolly McTrollson P

I'm literally just trying to get you guys to explain how your bizarre gender ideology works.

What bizarre ideology? I don’t agree that a biological man should be involved in a sport in which he punches a biological female in the face repeatedly. There is a significant biological advantage to that. Such is the case in the Olympics. There are two men competing as women.


by originalgangster P

What bizarre ideology? I don’t agree that a biological man should be involved in a sport in which he punches a biological female in the face repeatedly. There is a significant biological advantage to that. Such is the case in the Olympics. There are two men competing as women.

Don't take bait


by natediggity P

Let's say there is a poster that constantly posts stuff like this:

"Do you think that maybe this is because its more acceptable to be gay or is your hypothesis that sucking dick is just that freakin cool?"

That's mean and insulting but they can do it over and over and over. (and we know why.)

Someone else comes in with one transphobic post and they are banned.

Do you not see an issue?

FYI my opinions on the trans issue are minimal. I don't care

It’s because we live in an outrage culture. Everyone has to have a cause over which they are outraged. His is trans. He is among those who feel we should walk on eggshells and bend over backwards for less than 1% of the population.


by natediggity P

Someone else comes in with one transphobic post and they are banned.

Who?

by natediggity P

Edit: Exhibit B. Allowed of course.

"God, you are such a whiney little ****. Every mod that tells you to shut the **** up gets personally attacked. No one asked for your evaluation of his professional skills but I certainly trust them over a megalomaniac that believes his 6 month personal experience in an industry gives him some type of expert status that we should bow down to his ridiculous opinions."

I really don't understand this sort of thing I get a lot. If I don't take action against a post immediately, posters say that I'm allowing that post. Maybe I'm not spending every minute of my life modding this forum? I took 24 minutes to do something else and suddenly that makes me biased?


by ganstaman P

Who?

i think it was yesterday. don't remember the poster's name and i'm exaggerating as they/them were allowed a couple of posts before the ban (which was obviously deserved).


I really don't understand this sort of thing I get a lot. If I don't take action against a post immediately, posters say that I'm allowing that post. Maybe I'm not spending every minute of my life modding this forum? I took 24 minutes to do something else and suddenly t


Apologies as I don't go back and look to see if posts may have been deleted. I just see a LOT of posts that are 100% insulting that are allowed by certain posters.

edit: my post got screwed up but i did answer your first question....you just have to look hard


by Luciom P

Progressivism is explicitly about denying that the condensed wisdom of the totality of humanity preceding the present moment is wrong, and the progressives are right, so no.

Without “progressivism”, the brainiacs in the Catholic Church would still be telling everyone that the sun revolves around the earth, as that’s what the “condensed wisdom of the totality of humanity” said was the TRUTH. The dumbass pope even locked Galileo up for stating this FACT. Yet you think progressivism ruins everything? LOL. Not a smart take. Not at all.

And MrDavitWilliam will tell a stupid mother****er he/she is a stupid mother****er. MrDavitWilliam ain’t scared.


This boxer isn’t someone who woke up one day and decided they didn’t want to have a dick any more. There was NEVER a dick there. So why wouldn’t she think she was a girl? Jesus. Think, *******s.


by rickroll P


i'm sorry for using you as a rhetorical device it was not my intention to slander you, only to speak to a mod using framework they would understand

ok, appreciate that. and fwiw, I wouldnt mod things I disagree with. theres not much I would ban.


by ganstaman P

He said that such posters were banned. This response of yours implies that you agree with me that he made that up?

you may have only directly banned the most low hanging fruit

but you would absolutely ban several posters if they didn't adhere to your ridiculous policies

if someone repeatedly insults another user, that's literally the only thing they do, you are just fine with that - but if someone comes into the thread and says "I think it's a shame we can't be honest and discuss this as a mental health issue" then they are promptyly banned and their posts are deleted - you do this under the guise of "protecting feelings" but you clearly dngaf about the feelings of the people who are repeadedly insulted and attacked here

perhaps it was not done by you, but there absolutely have been people who showed up new to the thread and received and instant ban for posting non hateful things that violated the absurd rules of the thread

by ganstaman P

This is actually false. You apparently just don't know when I warn, message, infract, or ban posters. Also, I've let lots of mean posting go in this thread and forum from people of all political bents. But I don't allow transphobia.

you have not once publicly reprimanded anyone in this thread who is an "ally" of yours ideologically speaking

meanwhile, you've done that countless times with those who you perceive as enemies

there are people who very opaquely only post here to insult and attack others and you are perfectly ok with that and not once have any of them received a ban nor even been told to cut it out - someone you have a lengthy track record of issuing public warnings

by ganstaman P

This is a complete fabrication. All those arguments have been made and allowed to stand in this thread. What is banned as anti-trans is saying that all trans people are not actually trans, that they're all faking or tricked or mentally ill. These are not the same arguments.

those ideas may be allowed to be posted, but you then use it as a target for those who say such things to be repeatedly and regularly insulted - so no, you don't really allow it because you actively condone attacking anyone who says such things


you're here to make sure people don't go off the rails posting spam links or threatening to kill other users

you are not here to dictate the discussion agenda, censor discussion by forbidding certain discussion

and worst of all, you decide which viewpoints are correct, label any and all dissenting viewpoints as evil as you have done


this is embarassing for you, you should just shut down these threads if you're going to use them as personal platform instead to promote your own niche views instead of a place for discussion
amongst peers


if someone posts "death to trans" etc then yes, that's hateful and they should be banned - but nobody is posting anything like that (and if they did and you caught it before i saw it then i agree with your decision)


by MrDavitWilliam P

This boxer isn’t someone who woke up one day and decided they didn’t want to have a dick any more. There was NEVER a dick there. So why wouldn’t she think she was a girl? Jesus. Think, *******s.

it's unclear what her specfic condition is, but if she has swyer syndrome, she'd know by puberty because that's when things usually begin to go topsy turvy

she is 25 and receives world class medical care - there's absolutely zero chance it would have been a surprise for her - it's not like she grew up in a cave raised by illiterate shepherds who would have no idea


my heart genuinely goes out to her, she's in a terrible spot - it also appears inconclusive what advantage it gives despite that the eye test would disagree

i'm not upset that she was allowed to compete, i'm upset that the IOC didn't really address it and just said "you're good to go" and thus why it's caused so much controversy


by originalgangster P

Reading through this thread there are plenty of examples of people here opposing the pro-trans group, being respectful in doing so, posting legitimate sources that lead to their beliefs and being banned for it having done nothing to try to rile up the other side, but merely express their alternate views.

Ya Mr 18 posts, this is obviously false. There are many, many non-banned posters posting their anti-trans spiels over and over ITT (for years, in some cases) none of whom are banned for "merely expressing their alternate views". When people posts a very particularly acutely hateful screed, that will get deleted, but this is nonsense.

So which previously banned poster are you that gives you such experience?


by MrDavitWilliam P

This boxer isn’t someone who woke up one day and decided they didn’t want to have a dick any more. There was NEVER a dick there. So why wouldn’t she think she was a girl? Jesus. Think, *******s.

How have you come about the knowledge that He doesn’t have a penis?


by uke_master P

Ya Mr 18 posts, this is obviously false. There are many, many non-banned posters posting their anti-trans spiels over and over ITT (for years, in some cases) none of whom are banned for "merely expressing their alternate views". When people posts a very particularly acutely hateful screed, that will get deleted, but this is nonsense.

So which previously banned poster are you that gives you such experience?

Does post count somehow change the veracity of a poster’s comments? Someone who has only recently come about this site and created an account could only have a low post count. That doesn’t mean that he/she/they/it is any less reputable.


by originalgangster P

Does post count somehow change the veracity of a poster’s comments? Someone who has only recently come about this site and created an account could only have a low post count. That doesn’t mean that he/she/they/it is any less reputable.

Your statements are clearly false either way, it is true, but 18 posts and complaining about oppressive moderation already is quite the the quick take for a genuine noobie. Given how wrong your statement was, perhaps some humility in the future is recommended.


by Luciom P

Take what any western country would have done in 1955 as the answer.

Do you know humanity existed before trans activists did?

I know what people did before rightwing gender ideologues decided we needed bathroom bills and chromosome tests.


by originalgangster P

How have you come about the knowledge that He doesn’t have a penis?

Logic. (Just like BillBarr!). **** off.


by uke_master P

Your statements are clearly false either way, it is true, but 18 posts and complaining about oppressive moderation already is quite the the quick take for a genuine noobie. Given how wrong your statement was, perhaps some humility in the future is recommended.

Not at all. I read the entire thread to get up to speed before I posted. I’ve seen the disappearance of several what can only be described as brilliant posters who were civil, respectful, and had legitimate reasons for their erudite views.


by MrDavitWilliam P

Logic. (Just like BillBarr!). **** off.

In other words, you don’t know what sort of genitalia he possesses.
And there is no need for profanity. Apparently that can get you banned here. Probably not because you’re pro-trans, but I do not appreciate being spoken to like that just because your feels are hurt.


by originalgangster P

In other words, you don’t know what sort of genitalia he possesses.
And there is no need for profanity. Apparently that can get you banned here. Probably not because you’re pro-trans, but I do not appreciate being spoken to like that just because your feels are hurt.

Your original question is disingenuous, and you know it. **** you.

She’s listed as female on her birth certificate. Why? Because when she was born the Dr took a look and said, “No dick. Girl.” It’s not difficult for most to comprehend. Most.


by originalgangster P

Not at all. I read the entire thread to get up to speed before I posted. I’ve seen the disappearance of several what can only be described as brilliant posters who were civil, respectful, and had legitimate reasons for their erudite views.

You read an “entire” 8000 post thread on trans issues that spanned three moderation eras before you had made 20 posts of your own? Are you SURE this civil, respectful, erudite poster that was so tragically banned for “merely post alternate views” isn’t a self projection?


by MrDavitWilliam P

This boxer isn’t someone who woke up one day and decided they didn’t want to have a dick any more. There was NEVER a dick there. So why wouldn’t she think she was a girl? Jesus. Think, *******s.

Glad to see we figured out how to determine what a woman is.


by campfirewest P

Glad to see we figured out how to determine what a woman is.

That wasn’t what was trying to be determined, and you know it. We’re talking about why this girl thinks she’s a girl. It is not unreasonable for her to think she’s a girl since she’s been told she’s a girl her whole ****ing life and she ain’t got a dick.


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