Moderation Questions and General Chat Thread

Rickroll gets banned for accusing Browser of having thin skin? I doubt he'd want to be freed

As usual you got that wrong. Rick is free to appeal the ban should he chose to. And anyone else is welcome to go to ATF and complain about my modding should they choose to. To quote another poster, anything else is just performance art.

that's almost every place on earth btw

That's actually misquoting me. You mean to reference "another poster".

Ok. Thanks for clarifying that.

for reference, how does this work exactly? you can't post or send pm's while banned, right? what's the procedure then for a poster who's been banned to appeal their own banning while they've been banned?

he can contact upper management through a form accessible while banned

Impermanence is the dharma of all things.

Back to the tried and true "if you don't like that I am killing this forum, go tell my nephew in ATF. I am sure he will take your complaints seriously!"

What else would you like me to advise you to do? Become a mod so you can have a direct impact on the modding of the forum? Continue to post repetitive insulting posts complaining about a mod decision as if that were an effective way to change anything? Or advise you to stop posting on this ban in this thread as you have made your feelings known already?

So if you are going to preemptively reject the options open to you as rigged, are you simply going to continue to post the same thing over and over until I start deleting those posts for clogging this thread, so you can then complain about that as well?

really? is this true? I'm following up bc I know browser doesn't like non-mods answering mod questions.

And if so, who is upper management? Bobo? Mike Hewhoshallnotbenamed? The owners?

You're not "subjected" to any posts - there's a thing called scrolling you can do when the onus is on you to do an iota of work with your mouse rather than bay for someone else to be denied the ability to post because you personally don't like reading it.

Good news, in a week you can enjoy your performance art.

So fine, got a week, so it goes, no hard feelings

Just want to make sure I understand the rules of the game before I continue to play it

Directly insulting a poster: bad. Fair enough

Indirectly insulting a group, either identified by location, political leaning etc etc by way of either insults, unsubstantiated claims, general trolling and baiting: acceptable discourse

Meaning as long as I don’t name names and refer to someone who may or may not identify with the group I’m lambasting, that’s on them and acceptable posting

@jjou

Or you could use the ignore feature. But it's a lot more fun to whine about other people I guess.

Who knows? One of the problems with authoritarian moderation is that it becomes harder and harder for them to codify their own laws so that they still make some sort of internally logical sense, and results in more work for them rather than the intended less work they expect from a clampdown.

There is a thread in ATF titled what to do if banned. It is old, but so is the software. So I have asked in the mod forum if there have been any changes to those procedures. As soon as I get an answer I will share it here.

Well put.

Not really. The problem is that some posters keep seeking some sort of absolute, all encompassing list of words or phrases that are either allowed or not, so that they can get as close to the line as possible with getting warned or banned. But that list will never materialize because it's always a mod judgement call where context as well as the words themselves matter. They seek black or white guidance in a gray area.

Almost all of the drama over bans will go away the minute certain posters stop trying to see how insulting or disrespectful they can be to other posters without drawing mod action and instead focus on the actual argument they are trying to make. Disagreement need not be disrespectful.

To preface everything, browser and I have disagreed on a number of subjects over the years as mods. We have different personalities so I'm confident in the future we'll disagree again.

That said, the unwritten rule for mods is that they can run their forums as they wish, subject to review and overruling by the owners. Posters can complain about a mod, but unless it is a horrible injustice, the owners are going to just let it slide. The ATF forum or the forum's modding thread are the places to make your thoughts known. FWIW, the new owners are against permanent banning, not a temporary ban to allow things to cool down.

I'm not a believer of any statement that includes "all people who are part of this group have that sort of characteristic." It can't be proven since you can't know about everyone in that group. Most of the time, it isn't true especially when the characteristic is perceived as negative. As such, it is reasonable for a mod to ask someone stating it as fact to stop. And if they don't, to take action to encourage them to stop.

Nobody is saying that browser can't run the forum as he sees fit. But we are also free to disagree with how he runs it, and make that disagreement known.

It goes far beyond just a single mischaracterization of a group. There has never been a group of people treated as badly overall on 2p2 as trans people. ever.

For example we have people arguing that cosmetic surgeries that a tiny fraction of those with gender dysphoria choose to do is like lobotomies. Those surgeries are much more common amongst cisgender people and have almost no relation to brain surgeries, that still happen today. And that they need brain treatment instead. In actuality, lobotomies primary target was the oppression of lgbtq people.

Imagine if we let people argue ad nasuem about how circumcision was like lobotomies, therefore we need to ban curcumcision because it’s exactly like lobotomies and those people doing circumcision are mutilating our children and need to go to jail and they get off on mutilating our children because they’re gross pedophiles . And then furthermore it’s suggested that the way to cure those who got circumcised is brain surgery. Then imagine if most everyone on 2p2 thought that line of thought was basically common sense. That’s just one example of the gross arguments being made about trans people here.
It’s not that it’s just a mischaracterization of a group. It’s many mischaracterizations stacked on top of each other in ways that have no logical basis but are accepted as common sense by a number of posters here.

That's because the posters, who this forum wouldn't exist without, want to be able to say for example that if poster A is repeatedly making racist posts then they are a racist, and (as I understand them) your hotchpotch rules prevent them from saying this.

P&S isn't a forum for discussing maths or science, when strict moderation would work better; it's mainly for subjects that people find highly emotive, and your expectation that people debate robotically with each other is totally unreasonable, as you continue to see.

Circumcision on children should be banned. They didn't give consent to have part of their dick cut off.

There it is, the "if you keep disagreeing with me, I will call it trolling and ban you" post. It is like you can't help yourself.

I don't need you to advise me to do anything, as I don't have any power to do anything about how this forum is run. You are the one that has literally dozens of posts giving input on your moderation over the last few months and not only dismissing all of it, but doubling down on the behavior of which everybody complains. I am just one of many people on this forum that see where this is headed and are being vocal about it. We do it because we care about this forum. I can't speak for everybody, but 2p2 has had a significant effect on my life over 20 years, even as somebody that was mostly a lurker. To see great posters getting banned left and right because they don't want to go along with your constant and arbitrary mod decisions is to see this place burn to the ground. Eventually you will be moderating a forum with just Washoe and JJJou as posters. I am sure this will be a really educational forum then.