Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
I get a lot of propaganda from both sides on my "X" stream.
One side continually shows Russia allegedly losing large numbers of men and war machines and insists they are fairing poorly. And there other allegedly shows Ukraine losing battles, land and Western support and insists they are losing poorly. It really is quite the dichotomy.
Ukraine is in bad shape right now and Russia is building strength more than we thought they could. that's the objective situation and I speak as someone who would have nuked Moscow a long while ago
Ukraine is in bad shape right now and Russia is building strength more than we thought they could. that's the objective situation and I speak as someone who would have nuked Moscow a long while ago
this was apparent last April when the Texeira leaks happened. but anyone who said it on this forum was called a Russian propagandist that loved Putin. you dont get credit for being right. you get credit for mindlessly following the mainstream viewpoint.
You have not answered my very direct and extremely easy to answer questions such as:
Why do you believe Russia would not invade again if Ukraine agreed to dismiss the vast majority of their military and Russia had veto power if any aid could be sent to Ukraine if they invaded again? You've been ignoring that over a year. Quit gaslighting.
I imagine this is because the last question you answered about Russia being about "50/50" morally correct to invade and commit torture, rape, brainwashing, forced deportations etc showed exactly what you are desperately trying to hide.
edit: lol similarly avoiding Luciom's direct questions as well.
no it's so much worse than even if you believe every word of hamas propaganda, Putin actions are still so much more horrible than Israel it is not even close.
at least Hamas has the excuse of fighting against an "occupant", in their own twisted viewpoint.
Russia is just the blatant, completely unjustified, aggressor which is a moral imperative to stop by any mean necessary for any decent human being.
You have not answered my very direct and extremely easy to answer questions such as:
Why do you believe Russia would not invade again if Ukraine agreed to dismiss the vast majority of their military and Russia had veto power if any aid could be sent to Ukraine if they invaded again? You've been ignoring that over a year. Quit gaslighting.
I imagine this is because the last question you answered about Russia being about "50/50" morally correct
you want me to argue against a complicated counterfactual hypothetical? bruv, I just dont think if there was a negotiation and Russia agreed that it would invade. now, its def possible that they had their fingers crossed, or that the West had its fingers crossed.
I imagine this is because the last question you answered about Russia being about "50/50" morally correct to invade and commit torture, rape, brainwashing, forced deportations etc showed exactly what you are desperately trying to hide.
lol I never said anything like this. why do you lie so much?
this was apparent last April when the Texeira leaks happened. but anyone who said it on this forum was called a Russian propagandist that loved Putin. you dont get credit for being right. you get credit for mindlessly following the mainstream viewpoint.
it's more recent and it's about your Maga friends blocking aid to Ukraine in Congress, Ukraine failing the summer counter offensive, and India and others mocking us by triangulating imports to make sanctions against Russia a complete joke
even ****ing McConnell understood how important it is to us to help Ukraine.
the ****ing turtle got it.
only victor and his maga friends don't
no it's so much worse than even if you believe every word of hamas propaganda, Putin actions are still so much more horrible than Israel it is not even close.
at least Hamas has the excuse of fighting against an "occupant", in their own twisted viewpoint.
Russia is just the blatant, completely unjustified, aggressor which is a moral imperative to stop by any mean necessary for any decent human being.
well no I dont think Russia and Putin have committed nearly as many war crimes and atrocities as Israel. you will have to agree to disagree but I am much more educated on the subject that you so you are wrong ofc.
Russia was goaded into the war by the West and the West perpetuated it when they were close to a cease fire. I certainly dont agree with the Invasion and I think they had more diplomatic options available. but the fact remains, the West did everything they could to provoke this war and have bragged about it many times since then.
so its like in the USA where we have car accidents and both parties get a certain percentage of the blame. Id say the West and Putin are at about 5050 on the blame for this one. unfortunately its the Ukrainians that gotta foot the bill.
you want me to argue against a complicated counterfactual hypothetical? bruv, I just dont think if there was a negotiation and Russia agreed that it would invade.
Yes. Why do you believe this?
There is approximately 0% chance Putin would not have invaded Ukraine again if Ukraine had agreed to that ceasefire. I believe this because the ceasefire would have crippled Ukraine's military and made them an easy target. Putin, and Russia, have a track record of using such ceasefires to reconstitute and attack again. This ceasefire would have given Russia veto powers on foreign aid from reaching Ukraine. Putin and Russia's top authorities continue to state their original war goals, say that Ukraine doesn't have a right to exist, and that they will conquer all of Ukraine.
See? Very easy. Your turn, otherwise you are avoiding the question.
lol I never said anything like this. why do you lie so much?
Liars lie. Quit gaslighting. How did you forget this, it happened today?
Do you think Ukraine has the moral high ground in defending themselves from Russian imperialism and Putin's genocide?
it's more recent and it's about your Maga friends blocking aid to Ukraine in Congress, Ukraine failing the summer counter offensive, and India and others mocking us by triangulating imports to make sanctions against Russia a complete joke
no it was clear that Ukraine did not have the manpower or firepower after those leaks came out.
even ****ing McConnell understood how important it is to us to help Ukraine.
the ****ing turtle got it.
only victor and his maga friends don't
the difference is that I dont view these things like a game of risk where you sacrifice an Army for an advantage. I look at them through the lens of the people getting kidnapped off the streets and sent to the front on 2 weeks of training.
well no I dont think Russia and Putin have committed nearly as many war crimes and atrocities as Israel. you will have to agree to disagree but I am much more educated on the subject that you so you are wrong ofc.
False
Putin literally has an ICJ arrest warrant out for him ffs.
Russia was goaded into the war by the West
False
and the West perpetuated it when they were close to a cease fire.
False
I certainly dont agree with the Invasion
Just about every post ITT and the previous thread point to this being false.
and I think they had more diplomatic options available.
False
but the fact remains, the West did everything they could to provoke this war and have bragged about it many times since then.
False and false
so its like in the USA where we have car accidents and both parties get a certain percentage of the blame. Id say the West and Putin are at about 5050 on the blame for this one. unfortunately its the Ukrainians that gotta foot the bill.
This wasn't an accident. Russia invaded, that was a decision made by Putin.
these 2 things are very different. and ofc I disqualified the lol genocide from my assessment.
Do you think Ukraine has the moral high ground in defending themselves from Russian imperialism and Putin's genocide?
Russia being about "50/50" morally correct to invade and commit torture, rape, brainwashing, forced deportations etc showed exactly what you are desperately trying to hide.
anyway, no I dont think Putin invades if there is a negotiated settlement. I dont think he wants to take over Ukraine and rule a hostile population. if those terms were met, then there would be no reason to invade, he would have gotten what he wanted.
anyway, no I dont think Putin invades if there is a negotiated settlement. I dont think he wants to take over Ukraine and rule a hostile population. if those terms were met, then there would be no reason to invade, he would have gotten what he wanted.
The question you are avoiding is why do you believe this? I've given the argument for why it's BS. Back why you believe what you believe or it's just pure hopeium.
The question you are avoiding is why do you believe this? I've given the argument for why it's BS. Back why you believe what you believe or it's just pure hopeium.
I just said why I disagreed. call it hopeium if you want I dont care.
anyway, you should read your link and your post again a little more carefully.
Oops ICC.
To clarify the reason you believe Putin would honor the peace deal is because he doesn't want to conquer Ukraine, and he just wants to rid Ukraine of its military?
both. but the Russians are much better trained and rested at this point.
not that I think any amount of training makes it ok to force people to murder each other for the West or for Putin.
Ukraine is fighting for survival not "for the west". it's fighting to exist as a nation state.
mediocre narrative drafters in the west claim they fight "for the west" sure, that's all bollock.
we finance Ukraine because a weaker Russia is better for the world and because bullies on this planet need to know they can't easily conquer territory in the 21th century, and we are watching
Oops ICC.
To clarify the reason you believe Putin would honor the peace deal is because he doesn't want to conquer Ukraine, and he just wants to rid Ukraine of its military?
no the reason is that its not easy to invade a country and it is costly. so I dont think he would invade if the terms were amenable to him. dont know how many times and ways I can say this.
Ukraine is fighting for survival not "for the west". it's fighting to exist as a nation state.
mediocre narrative drafters in the west claim they fight "for the west" sure, that's all bollock.
we finance Ukraine because a weaker Russia is better for the world and because bullies on this planet need to know they can't easily conquer territory in the 21th century, and we are watching
bruv, they had a deal in Apr 2022 where Russia left the Donbass. if they werent fighting for the West then BoJo doesnt show up and scuttle it and they remain a nation state.
they are going to still remain a nation state after this war ends regardless. they may be a bit smaller if Russia takes 2 more oblasts but who knows, maybe the Macron troops will save them.
Pretty sure that's your first time saying it.
And again to clarify: the ceasefire offered in April 22 were the "amenable terms"?
Russia did not offer to leave Donbas.
well apparently not since they didnt happen?
Amenable to Putin. If Ukraine had accepted Putin's ultimatum in April 22 then Putin would not have invaded again?
