Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
because McConnell himself said so
“I view it as all interconnected,” he said during the interview. “If you look at the Ukraine assistance, let’s – let’s talk about where the money is really going. A significant portion of it’s being spent in the United States in 38 different states, replacing the weapons that we sent to Ukraine with more modern weapons. So we’re rebuilding our industrial base,” he said.
He added: “No Americans are getting killed in Ukraine. We’re rebuilding our industrial base. The Ukrainians are destroying the army of one of our biggest rivals. I have a hard time finding anything wrong with that. I think it’s wonderful that they’re defending themselves
PW, do you still think that f16s are the single weapon that enables Ukraine to win?
Well f16s aren’t used alone so I don’t know what your point it.
The systems they use in conjunction with f16s are what help count. Once we own the air and control damage from SAM systems, then yes the f16 will win the war.
F16s by themselves are more or less useless.
Anytime you need some help with military stuff I’m happy to help you
I am not a warhawk but i think you aren't considering things in Donbass properly.
With a prolonged ceasefire, Russia can cement it's occupation (which is something it is already doing because we gave it too much time).
They can take ukrainian children and bring them to Russia (which they did already), push the pro ukraine residents to leave (when they didn't kill them already), and secure power among pro-russia residents (russophones and the
Crimea is a pipe dream. donbas is a long shot. Luhansk could be a goal
Russia does not need to outproduce USA, who clearly wants to move out of Europe to contain China.
It is not clear that EU will continue rearming and even less likely that they send Ukraine enough arms to prevent russia's next attempt at invading. This is why Ukraine wants to fight until they can put themselves into a position to get a favorable peace deal. That's not even mentioning Ukraine's many non military issues.
There is exactly one Wa
Germany can easily outproduce Russia alone. they just need the motivation. They are already starting
Well f16s aren’t used alone so I don’t know what your point it.
The systems they use in conjunction with f16s are what help count. Once we own the air and control damage from SAM systems, then yes the f16 will win the war.
F16s by themselves are more or less useless.
Anytime you need some help with military stuff I’m happy to help you
Russia was not able to achieve air superiority. what makes you think ukraine can do it what hammy down garbage planes that they would receive a couple at a time. a couple fighters here and a couple fighters there is not a difference maker.
Thy need artillery shells which we have done a horrible job at producing
PW, do you still think that f16s are the single weapon that enables Ukraine to win?
Russia was not able to achieve air superiority. what makes you think ukraine can do it what hammy down garbage planes that they would receive a couple at a time. a couple fighters here and a couple fighters there is not a difference maker.
Thy need artillery shells which we have done a horrible job at producing
Because Ukraine is not Russia, Ukraine is being back by the US
Is Russia being backed by the Us militarily and financially? No
Russia is producing like 4x the amount of artillery shells we are producing.
Anyway if it was safe enough to have F16s we would bomb those artillery pieces and destroy their supply lines. We could do that now with our current artillery systems we just choose not to
I thought the only peace deal Ukraine will agree to is Russia leaves Ukraine including Crimea which is never going to happen . The west already gave Putin Crimea under Obama which sadly was the correct decision and no going back from that
I don't think Ukraine ever actually meant this. I said it multiple times in the old thread, but basically "Get all our conquered lands", "Back to 1991 borders" etc. are better rallying calls than "threaten Crimea so we can get a proper peace deal!"
Well f16s aren’t used alone so I don’t know what your point it.
The systems they use in conjunction with f16s are what help count. Once we own the air and control damage from SAM systems, then yes the f16 will win the war.
F16s by themselves are more or less useless.
Anytime you need some help with military stuff I’m happy to help you
OK. If Ukraine gets F16s and all the support required for them, do you still think that this is the single weapon that turns the war for Ukraine? In the previous thread I said "There's no single weapon which will drastically turn the tide for Ukraine" and you said "F16s. That's the single weapon that wins the war for Ukraine."
Now that we're probably less than a half year out from Ukrainian F16s (although not at great numbers), I'm curious if you still believe this.
F16s to Ukraine are a joke for several reasons, the first being Ukraine doesn't have the pilots to fly them.
The second being they cost disastrous amounts of money and Ukraine can do much better with the same money spent otherwise.
But yes in a world with infinite money, where we have infinite time to train pilots, why not
I don't think Ukraine ever actually meant this. I said it multiple times in the old thread, but basically "Get all our conquered lands", "Back to 1991 borders" etc. are better rallying calls than "threaten Crimea so we can get a proper peace deal!"
OK. If Ukraine gets F16s and all the support required for them, do you still think that this is the single weapon that turns the war for Ukraine? In the previous thread I said "There's no single
let me think about it
F16s to Ukraine are a joke for several reasons, the first being Ukraine doesn't have the pilots to fly them.
The second being they cost disastrous amounts of money and Ukraine can do much better with the same money spent otherwise.
But yes in a world with infinite money, where we have infinite time to train pilots, why not
I don't know why you think Ukraine doesn't have pilots to fly F16s.
All things being equal, I agree that Ukraine would do better to spend the money elsewhere. That's not an option though, the problem isn't a desire to spend money to help Ukraine, it's that Europe has "run out" of things to spend it on. That's why the USA aid is so important: they have far more stockpiles and their production capabilities are needed.
The reason "run out" is in quotes is because The West could always agree to give Ukraine access to more modern tech (such as F16s) which gives a bigger pool of things for allies to purchase for Ukraine, but that seems to have stalled.
USA needs to support ukraine because it helps wear out russia and keeps europe safe while we prepare to repel future incursions from China Russia N Korea.
It sucks. I hope this conflict ends soon and does not spread
Because you guys are training them as they don't have any?
I guess we have different definitions for what it means that Ukraine "doesn't have the pilots to fly them".
What about Ukrainian pilots needing to be trained how to fly F16s makes giving F16s to Ukraine "a joke"?
I guess we have different definitions for what it means that Ukraine "doesn't have the pilots to fly them".
What about Ukrainian pilots needing to be trained how to fly F16s makes giving F16s to Ukraine "a joke"?
The very long training requirements (I agree with you we don't have time to waste)
Ukraine is moving their air force to be compatible with NATO. It makes sense to train their pilots to begin using F16s as part of that switch. Ukraine is likely to begin flying F16s this summer. I don't really see a better option for what Ukraine can use these pilots for.
Ukraine is moving their air force to be compatible with NATO. It makes sense to train their pilots to begin using F16s as part of that switch. Ukraine is likely to begin flying F16s this summer. I don't really see a better option for what Ukraine can use these pilots for.
The article (from one month ago) I linked said end of the year, and only if aid continued
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/world...
Ukraine Could Deploy F-16s as Soon as July, but Only a Few
(Few === 6)
I have never heard that USA aid could hold up the F16s, I don't see how. Anyways I don't see a better use for these pilots. They aren't going to change the course of the war or anything, but they will be helpful.
300 would
Because you guys are training them as they don't have any?
Ukrainian pilots are also being trained on the F-16 in Denmark and Romania, with initial training courses provided by the UK before the pilots proceed to advanced training.
imagine this response if he was asked about if Jews were human. or Israelis is more analogous but still.
I actually had no idea the racism towards Palestinians until I started seeing things like this and reading the posts on this forum. like, the liberal baseline is that they are bloodthirsty monsters whos only desire is to murder Jews and its questionable on if they are even human.
WRONG THREAD VICTOR YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BASH ZELENSKY HERE
Zelensky is gaining a lot of sympathy with me. hes really stuck. never trust the West as always.
Really stuck? He did that the first 2 weeks.
I swear I didn't read that when I posted.
But the "special op" started Feb 24th 2022, so Feb 24th 2024 it's 730 days, + 5 for 29 days February + 12 that's 747 he is right, I rounded it too quickly in my head sorry
