Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Unironically yes, it is.
Disgusting.
wonder how all the men kidnapped off the street feel about that
Maybe similar to the gazans forced to host hamas, or just trying to go about their life while hamas abuses their humanitarian corridors, despite the fact it puts innocent people in danger. Although those gazans aren't breaking the law and I haven't seen any fake videos of gazans being forced to do that, it's all real.
Fwiw the Ukraine mobilization went well.
probably not similar in any way. Hamas doesnt force civilians to fight for them. they dont abuse humanitarian corridors. its a completely ridiculous statement that absolves the most criminal and (plausibly) genocidal regime of our lives and blames the child victims who are targeted by said regime. unfortunately I am not allowed to make any sorts of value judgements on the people who regurgitate such disgusting rhetoric.
Ukraine doesn't kidnap people off the street. its a completely ridiculous statement that absolves the most criminal and (plausibly) genocidal regime of our lives and blames the child victims who are targeted by said regime.
no they really do. even the Western press reports it.
No they really don't. Hamas absolutely does force gazans to host hamas, and hanlmas absolutely does go to areas that are meant to be safe with no regard for the danger it presents to the innocent people there.
you consider an IDF intelligence officer to be the best source of information so I dont think your opinion matters much.
False. Also pease focus on the argument and not the poster.
It's not an opinion, it's fact.
well if you are making baseless assertions to justify the murder of 100s of thousands of civilians then I am sure the mod crew will be here to sanctify it and ban any alternate views so I will bow out.
Hamas bad. 100s of thousands of dead Gazans good. Israel good.
I think we are good here.
I'm not making that assertion. I have no idea where you got 100s of thousands of civilians from.
if you are making baseless assertions to justify the murder of 10s of thousands of ukrainian civilians then I am sure the mod crew will continue to allow it since they give you so many special priveleges
Ukraine bad. 10s of thousands of dead Ukrainians good. Russia good.
I think we are good here.
I don't believe beating Russia greatly decreased the chance of future wars its probably a very small decrease. it may even increase it especially if were counting quantity not quality
Ukraine doesn't kidnap people off the street. its a completely ridiculous statement that absolves the most criminal and (plausibly) genocidal regime of our lives and blames the child victims who are targeted by said regime.
How do you think they get their draft dodgers in jail or in the army then? I feel its a normal thing warstates are expected to do and it has been done in almost all wars with drafts including the vietnam war ima look it up. Saying its mostly propaganda is fine I kinda lean that way too but they clearly have to do something to draft dodgers.
Surely you don't believe Ukraine is a utopian society with only volunteers in the army. ima look into it. ill admit I don't know much about it
I'm not making that assertion. I have no idea where you got 100s of thousands of civilians from.
if you are making baseless assertions to justify the murder of 10s of thousands of ukrainian civilians then I am sure the mod crew will continue to allow it since they give you so many special priveleges
Ukraine bad. 10s of thousands of dead Ukrainians good. Russia good.
I think we are good here.
A couple weeks ago the Lancet published some pseudoscience article where the authors guesstimated that counting indirect deaths (where they dont bother to even define what an indirect death is or how they came to their guesstimates) they are guesstimating 186,000 Gazans have died during the Israeli counter-offensive to 10/7.
And now internet leftists, 99% of whom didn't even read the article or understand what poor science it is, are quoting it as a fundamental truth.
I don't believe beating Russia greatly decreased the chance of future wars its probably a very small decrease. it may even increase it especially if were counting quantity not quality
It is the single most important thing which can be done to decrease the likelihood of future wars and nukes in this century.
How do you think they get their draft dodgers in jail or in the army then? I feel its a normal thing warstates are expected to do and it has been done in almost all wars with drafts including the vietnam war ima look it up. Saying its mostly propaganda is fine I kinda lean that way too but they clearly have to do something to draft dodgers.
Surely you don't believe Ukraine is a utopian society with only volunteers in the army. ima look into
Ukraine mobilized, it is not 100% volunteer. Calling it kidnapping is absurd, and pure propaganda. It's even more absurd that Russia actually does coerce people with no legal obligation to fight for them, yet for some reason this poster never seems to care about that. Kind of like how Russia has far more nazis yet they never get posted about.
These are attempts to vilify Ukraine, Russia uses these talking points to justify invading Ukraine and enacting genocide against them. There's a way to have an intelligent debate on these issues, but it's clearly not happening here.
A couple weeks ago the Lancet published some pseudoscience article where the authors guesstimated that counting indirect deaths (where they dont bother to even define what an indirect death is or how they came to their guesstimates) they are guesstimating 186,000 Gazans have died during the Israeli counter-offensive to 10/7.
And now internet leftists, 99% of whom didn't even read the article or understand what poor science it is, are quot
Thanks for the info. I looked it up:
For now, though, “the precision of these numbers is not as important as their magnitude,” Yusuf said. Even if the team’s calculations include a large margin of error, the final death toll still probably won’t be measured in tens of thousands – it is likely to be measured in hundreds of thousands.
So pure speculation and talking about the future consequences of extending the war and blaming Israel "murdering" for all of it.
It is the single most important thing which can be done to decrease the likelihood of future wars and nukes in this century.
Meh. I am not a Putin or Russian apologist and believe Russia should pack up, leave and end the war.
That being said, for years Putin has been signaling he wanted to absorb Belarus and Ukraine back into his version of a Russian empire, and then he tried to do it. There is nothing to suggest Russia has any ambitions of moving further west, and given their poor showing in Ukraine I dont even see how it would be military feasible.
As far as the rest of the world goes, I admit I am extremely pessimistic anyone can accurately predict what a Russian victory or defeat (depending on how you define these terms) would affect geopolitical stability moving forward.
Thanks for the info. I looked it up:
So pure speculation and talking about the future consequences of extending the war and blaming Israel "murdering" for all of it.
Yeah. The paper is just activism; the science in it is garbage. But when you interact with leftists moving forward and they start proclaiming hundreds of thousands of civilians dead, at least you will know where they are coming from.
apparently the lancet is one of the most respected academic journals in the world ..... but yeah you guys know better lmao
why don't you start up your own, what with all the brainpower oozing out of your ears?
That being said, for years Putin has been signaling he wanted to absorb Belarus and Ukraine back into his version of a Russian empire, and then he tried to do it. There is nothing to suggest Russia has any ambitions of moving further west, and given their poor showing in Ukraine I dont even see how it would be military feasible.
And Georgia. And Chechnya. They also have their influence campaigns in Africa. They are trying to rig elections in Europe and USA.
They are currently trying to take Belarus, Ukraine, and Georgia since those are the most important and easiest for them but that doesn't mean they stop if they were to accomplish those goals. Putin still believes Russia it is the Soviet Union, and aspires to recreate it so he can challenge the West.
A century is a long time and Russia can absolutely rebuild their military in that time. Russia could probably rebuild enough of a military to challenge Ukraine again in 10 years or less. If they got Putin's ultimatum through then they could probably do it in less than 5 years.
As far as the rest of the world goes, I admit I am extremely pessimistic anyone can accurately predict what a Russian victory or defeat (depending on how you define these terms) would affect geopolitical stability moving forward.
Seems very simple to me. If the West stays united until Russia is defeated then it sends a strong signal that they're not going to stand for unprovoked invasions which is a huge deterrent to anyone who might want to invade a country for territory.
72off: Do you disagree that the Lancet's speculation is speculation? Do you disagree that Victor tried to blame all future deaths on Israeli "murder" despite the Lancet specifically saying they are speculating about "indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence"?
Use that brainpower.
It is the single most important thing which can be done to decrease the likelihood of future wars and nukes in this century.
Ukraine mobilized, it is not 100% volunteer. Calling it kidnapping is absurd, and pure propaganda. It's even more absurd that Russia actually does coerce people with no legal obligation to fight for them, yet for some reason this poster never seems to care about that. Kind of like how Russia has far more nazis yet they
1st ones probably true on the nuke side of it but beating russia will just make 20 smaller wars if were talking number of wars.
So you don't denie they hunt people in Ukraine to serve jail or military time? im confused. Maybe I have a weird view of that because I dont see what Ukraine is allegedly doing by victor as even a bad thing by precedence. ITs something every country facing elimination has done for all of history and ukraine should be no exception.
The word kidnap is certainly bad faith and wrong so I dont even mind your take now that I think about it
no i agree with you, that this is the first conflict in the history of the world with 0 indirect deaths because i am on the side of the genociders
Please show me where I said something remotely similar to that.
How would beating Russia result in 20 smaller wars?
