Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
If Russian solders were bad (they were) that would give them more room to grow so by your own logic that's impossible ;p because Ukrainians were already perfect to begin with
umm no. I see you dont understand how logic works.
Russian soldiers were bad (true)
They have more room to grow ? (debatable on what their ceiling is)
Ukranians are perfect ? (no)
Are you just making things up?
Making the statement "Ukrainians getting better much faster than Russians" without any evidence seems like making things up. I mean you could be completely right I have no idea but you didn't even try to convince me. Right now I assume Russians are getting better because they had more room to grow since they started as a dogtier corrupt military
Russia has pretty much the greatest soldiers of all time. if you read the previous thread, they are fighting on vodka and shovels and taking on a highly mechanized and technological opponent.
TRUE. Cant have it both ways. The war can't both be continuing with the entire western world pumping arms into Ukraine and the Russian soldiers being pylons. You have to give your opponent some respect if you want to defeat him
Making the statement "Ukrainians getting better much faster than Russians" without any evidence seems like making things up. I mean you could be completely right I have no idea but you didn't even try to convince me. Right now I assume Russians are getting better because they had more room to grow since they started as a dogtier corrupt military
Im not here to explain the differences in western training and equipment relative to eastern forces.
They prob do have more room to grow but their ceiling is much lower due to poor equipment, poor training and overall poor support.
If you haven't been following this conflict closely enough to know the differences between troops then I don't know what to tell you.
Russia has pretty much the greatest soldiers of all time. if you read the previous thread, they are fighting on vodka and shovels and taking on a highly mechanized and technological opponent.
I don't remember this, sounds made up.
Making the statement "Ukrainians getting better much faster than Russians" without any evidence seems like making things up. I mean you could be completely right I have no idea but you didn't even try to convince me. Right now I assume Russians are getting better because they had more room to grow since they started as a dogtier corrupt military
Russia didn't start out as entirely "dogtier". It started the war with several different tiers. A lot of the elite units were thrown away because Russia kept deciding to stick with their original plan even after it was obviously failing. This is true of a lot of Russia's top tier equipment as well. Since then the better units have been saved and used more sparingly. For example during Ukraine's offensive, the cannon fodder was up front and would eventually flee. After Ukraine took a position the more experienced units would counterattack.
Russia is mostly having success due to cannon fodder tactics. Cannon fodder units can only gain so much "experience". Stuff like riding electric scooters or motorcycles and praying a drone doesn't see you isn't exactly skill based. Sure there's some skill, but it caps low. There is an insanely high turnover rate due to these tactics.
Ukraine’s lightning offensive into several Russian border regions is designed to persuade Moscow to engage in “fair” talks about its war in Ukraine, an aide to Volodymyr Zelenskiy has said.
The Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak wrote on the Telegram messaging app: “We need to inflict significant tactical defeats on Russia. In the Kursk region, we clearly see how the military tool is objectively used to convince the Russian Federation to enter into a fair negotiation process.”
Im not here to explain the differences in western training and equipment relative to eastern forces.
They prob do have more room to grow but their ceiling is much lower due to poor equipment, poor training and overall poor support.
If you haven't been following this conflict closely enough to know the differences between troops then I don't know what to tell you.
of course I have. I already explain every Ukrainian solider is worth 1.5 Russian ones like 4 posts ago.
well ya we already talked about it. Its questionable if Ukraine will even want to try to hold this land long term. neither side probably wants another front but definitely not Ukraine they are outnumbered but have better equipment so will do better in a smaller front. but they saw an opportunity and took it
I never thought they did want to hold it.
I do wonder what the 'impossible to negotiate with putin because he can't be trusted' crowd around here think?
I think they went into Russia to secure the skies. They killed a bunch of anti aircraft stuff.
And they showed Russian civilians what could happen if Ukraine wants to be naughty
Also you can’t negotiate with Putin nor can he be trusted.
Every person in Europe needs to be armed with body armor,m4s , with foxholes everywhere
The fact the Ukrainians and press are starting to talk about peace talks.
From aljazeera
In Ukraine, peace talks no longer taboo as Russia’s war rages on
A recent poll suggests 44 percent of Ukrainians – the highest level since the conflict began – feel the time has come to engage in dialogue with the enemy.
from reuters
mykhalo podolyak called the Ukrainian action in Russia's kurks region a coercive tool. Podolyak linked the Ukrainians attack to forcing russia to the table
Thats just the last 24 hours. mykhola is a top Zelensky aid
movin as always It Is about getting back Ukraine land.
it's not that talks are "impossible" it's that they are impossible until Russia agrees to at the very very minimum go back to 2021 borders.
not absurd that with the Kursk thing Ukrainian think that could now be the case.
but I won't believe it until it happens ofc
Crimea is never going back and last I checked the residents prefer being part of Russia
I think that this makes sense as security for if Trump wins, but I would be surprised if Ukraine and Russia actually seriously discuss peace soon.
I don't think anyone actually knows what Ukraine's main goals are in Kursk.
Voting in Viktor world be like
2013, the most recent survey in that article. Shows 67% supporting some form of staying in Ukraine.
And none of them show over 50% wanting to join Russia.
the UN polls are going to be less biased
You don't know that. You probably don't even think that. It just suits your narrative now, and even then by a small amount.
The most recent survey shows 67% preferring to stay in Ukraine in some form or another.
Why did you bring this up anyways?
UN polls 2 years earlier show that 65% would vote to be annexed by Russia. or 62% prefer to leave Ukraine.
Yes the steadily declining number does show that. The other polls you show there from that time frame with a set of options that aren't just Russia/Ukraine at this exact moment, show it is actually extremely close; within 5%.
The most recent poll shows that the steadily declining number continued to decline, and taking into account the other factors that 2/3 of Crimeans preferred to stay in Ukraine. This is the most recent poll and it shows the opposite of "last I checked the residents prefer being part of Russia". Because the last we can check on this wikipedia page, 2/3 did not prefer to be part of Russia. We also know that the referendum was forced at gunpoint, suggesting it probably wasn't overwhelmingly pro Russian.
What point are you trying to make with this anyways?
