The costs of trans visibility

Why do you lie when it's so easily disproved? Your actual entire post was this

Because he's a sophist who trades in rhetoric and cheap "gotchas" while the actual experts who know what they're talking about are actually trained in evidence-based medicine. Why doesn't Walsh try publishing his takes in a professional journal?

The clear implication is that the scientists know more about what a woman is than Matt Walsh. I asked you if you believed that they had evidence to back up their claims. You absolutely refuse to answer that question and are resorting to every trick in your pathetic playbook to avoid it

Why don't we put it to Browser to decide Trolly. We know he takes your side here anyways so it should be easy to agree to.

If he thinks my question is in bad faith given the context of your post, he can ban me for a month. And if he thinks your refusal to answers it is in bad faith you get banned for a month.

Deal?

This is a great line and just lol at luckbox trying to make ban bets about it

Hardly a good faith interpretation of what is happening here.

I win, I’m right. I lose, I’m a victim of bias

I love it here

Sure. John Money prioritised gender over sex and undoubtedly caused harm by involuntarily castrating David Reimer and having him and his brother perform sex acts on each other in his office.

Considering his experiment had an N = 2 and they both committed suicide, I wouldn't say this whole gender>sex thing got off to the best start.

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/vie...

OK...but that's not really getting us much closer to "However, if gender affirming medical professionals in America were not more interested in ideology than medicine, rejecting biological reality in favour of subjectivism and were violating the Hippocratic Oath then they wouldn't have come to the attention of politicians and legislators.", because I'm assuming you meant this is a widespread problem, for politicians and legislators to get involved. And I wasn't expecting you to, as I've not heard of anyone doing a large study of this.

Doorbread, the vast majority of lgbtq people don’t care about someone getting everything right as long as they are supportive.

One time I went to a black church and everyone there was unbelievably( truly unbelievably) welcoming and kind. And I asked the guy who invited me why everyone was so nice to me even though I said this or that and hardly knew them. And he just said we were just glad you came. They were grateful that I actually followed through when i said I’d come.

LGBTQ people, especially trans, don’t actually care if you get everything right as long as you treat them with basic humanity which is apparently a big ask. Your posts are 98% correct and though I personally won’t debate this issue much or at all here anymore because of what I see as dehumanizing and transphobic and occasionally homophobic posts and you aren’t an expert on the issue I would want you to post about it for similar reasons to those church folks who were surprised i showed up, I’m just glad your posts are humane.

Like every other argument that has been debunked 25 different ways 20 different times. John Money is not liked or seen as any kind of leader in the trans community.
He did not “start” any of the things you’re implying, there’s been successful gender reassignment surgeries before john money was even born or lobotomies existed.
A lot of the early research into trans people was literally destroyed by nazis.

John moneys horrible abuse of that kid is further proof that trans people are right. People know what gender they are just as people know who they are sexually and romantically attracted to. John money did not understand that someone’s fit into gender is innate and so he forced that kid to be a gender he did not identify with, which is a horrible thing to do, just as it would be horrible to force straight guys to date other guys or it is horrbile to force gay guys to date women.

Just like trans people or those who are forced to be a gender they are not, reimer killed himself.
Because it’s wrong to force someone into the wrong gender roles. There is a big big and obvious reason the more authoritarian a society is, the more binary gender roles become.

Politicians got involved in the UK, commissioned a report, and as a result the Tavistock clinic was deemed unsafe. For example:

So, the problem was widespread enough at Tavistock that it was closed down.

https://cass.independent-review.uk/publi...

Yes, I'm aware. I had heard about that previously, and you posted that link less than 24 hours ago in reply to another one of my posts in this conversation. 😀

Thanks Bryce! I don't think that anything that I've said has been especially supportive or groundbreaking but any small win or neutrality put to something that has so much negativity drawn to it is a W I guess. I appreciated your posts yesterday as well, made my day 😀

This whole pronoun thing is dumb. There's one side of the aisle who admittedly struggles with identity and feeling seen. That's what they're asking for when they signal to you that they'd like to be referred to in a certain way. Then there's this other side who is some combination of averse to change, hell bent on being right, etc and they just can't do this very simple thing.

Like if I introduce myself as William but say that I go by Will. It doesn't matter what's on my birth certificate, or if I'm wrong. If someone keeps calling me William, that person is an *******. That ******* probably shouldn't insert their opinion on what the well being of Will. It's draining seeing so many *******s validate each others ******* opinion on something that shouldn't matter for them...for years now when the other side of the exchange would likely see a real benefit from people turning off their brains and being nicer. It's not even nice. It's a neutral interaction to call people what they prefer to be called by

Good - don't ask for the same evidence a third time 😀

You mean evidence that there is a widespread problem of "gender affirming medical professionals in America were not more interested in ideology than medicine, rejecting biological reality in favour of subjectivism and were violating the Hippocratic Oath then they wouldn't have come to the attention of politicians and legislators"? I don't plan to, because as I said, I wasn't expecting you to provide evidence, as I've not heard of anyone doing a large study of this.

I actually had no idea that your study from the UK was meant to provide evidence of what is going on in the US. That seems...odd.

The Cass Report deals with this explicitly:

Trans visibility is a big problem. In a couple hundred years, it won't be a thing at all, as our wonderful AI will find ways to solve the problem of girls who want to be boys, and similar things like that across the gender "spectrum."

The machines will understand early in your fetusness whether you will become a trans, a terrorist, or even an annoyance at the poker table, and they'll replace those genes with more socially acceptable ones. So, you see, this whole conversation is futile; it's going to be solved, and in the end we'll all be alike, even if we weren't meant to be.

My guess is since living humans will be rather rare, they'll edit out anything that would make you gay, trans, anything that would hinder your ability to reproduce. Because if a human can't reproduce, why the **** have it around in the first place?

by Elrazor P

The Cass Report deals with this explicitly:

Cool. Same model can be implemented many ways.

Are we done yet?

Wtf does this have to do with your claim that gender affirming medical professionals in America were not more interested in ideology than medicine, rejecting biological reality in favour of subjectivism and were violating the Hippocratic Oath?

My man, you just got done telling us you don't believe in scientists and their ideology. How are you now going to flip around and cite literature studies? Aren't you just shamelessly cherry picking?

i wasn't trying to tie mental health specifically to gender identity specifically, it was just stream of consciousness example

i'm just saying that if your theory that they are killing themselves due to not being accepted has some problems when you look at parts of the world where they are accepted and a regular part of society and they are still killing themselves in droves in Thailand as well

so i don't think that's a valid thesis because we have a robust population that's been around for decades and accepted into culture like no big deal and they are still killing themselves at an abnormally

there's a lot of reasons for suicide, construction workers are 5x more likely to kill themselves than nurses - but nobody in their right mind is going to argue that statistic is due to construction workers not being accepted by society

likewise, people with physical disabilities are 3x more likely to kill themselves than the general population, but again - if you dive deeply into suicide statistics you'll find all kinds of outliers and it i think it's very clear that the cause of suicide is extremely diverse and you're just projecting your beliefs here into a bias confirming thesis when there is absolutely no basis for it and the one real world example of it would disagree with the premise very strongly

ok i see now where your indignation comes from

when i was talking about pronouns, i was not saying I would refuse to call you Doorbread but instead call you Windowrice

I was saying that I shouldn't have to put a he/him after my name - that there's no reason for doing so as it's quite redundant, i have no issue with others who do it, nor if i were hiring would i discriminate against the applications that had their pronouns listed

and again, this is not so much about the pronouns thing, it's not going to distress me or anything if i started listing them after my name on all documents, the real issue for me is that look how you guys imply that reluctance to do that makes me a hateful anti trans asshat and this has nothing to do with trans for me - it's about a stupid and redundant thing - i don't list my religion, my income, my marital status, my height, my weight, i don't even list my age nor my sexual orientation but suddenly i need to remind everyone that I'm a male repeatedly?

i think it makes sense for people who've chosen the non traditional pronouns to list them so then people know and can adapt according to their desires, hence why i call you doorbread, but it doesn't make sense for people who have the expected pronouns

it's also becoming increasingly standard policy where employers and institutions are now mandating that everyone does it - that's what i'm against

i'm active in the job market now and quite a few recruiters have suggested that I include my pronouns something which i leave blank unless it's required (and more and more often it's required) I've talked to them about and it's been very enlightening that they are not wanting pronouns to see what my preferences are, because they honestly don't care about that, they want me to list them because "misgendering" is such a big no no now that they get anxiety when they aren't listed because the last thing they want is to one in a thousand chance that they use the wrong pronoun and then that person goes viral on twitter talking about how Walmart is transphobic and the hiring manager assumed my gender - that's what they are concerned about and that only

frankly, seeing how you guys are labeling me right now, you can see how that's the issue

my sister is a biology teacher a boarding school, thus a lot of her curriculum is on genetics and sex, every year she says she gets pushback from the students and her standard response "we're not talking about gender which is cultural, we're discussing sex which is scientific"

is cult like behavior, the same people raising children to disagree with science for sake of transacceptance are the same exact ones who used to mock religious people for doing the same exact thing

just a cult of karens demanding everyone else perform reduntant things to appease the extreme minority

there's far more colorblind drivers who can't tell the difference between a flashing yellow and flashing red traffic light than there are men who need tampons but we're installing tampon machines in mens rooms while leaving up the old light system which also kills people every year

I've oftentimes found myself extremely upset that someone put a tampon dispensing machine in the bathroom that I use. It is very upsetting.

this is a dishonest strawman attack

i'm not "extremely upset" about it in the slightest, i just think it's stupid and a poor allocation of time and resources when we have so many other problems to fix

Because John Money created the theory of gender. His experiments on the Reimer twins demonstrate he was was more interested in ideology than medicine, rejected biological reality in favour of subjectivism and violated the Hippocratic Oath.