Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Read better
Liar. You are clearly a racist who supports rape of Israeli women and beheading of Jewish children. This is shown by your condemnation of Israel taking action to protect itself.
Nah
Read better
Cry more
I got that, but they are far more of a client state than Israel is. What you have now in SA is a lot better than if you bombed them a lot and then tried to set up a new government there.
Probably so, it's really just out of principle against many bad things about SA that I don't like the US pseudo-alliance with them.
I agree with you, but you can replace the USA with any country that supplied Israel with arms and money. Without them, it was Holocaust 2.0. And the Americans doing their best since to keep that spirit going is commendable.
Don't think you could call it Holocaust 2.0. Would have simply been a military defeat. Colonial powers drew some lines for a new country, the existing people in the region objected and attempted to overturn it by force and lost, then lost again, then lost a few more times. If they would have won they would have done what they felt was needed to make sure it didn't happen again which probably would have entailed a lot of death and displacement of jews. Kind of similar to what's going on now with the Gazans.
If I get time, I'll look into it more, but checking... The Israeli government seems to be claiming that 190 unrwa employees were fighters and that 10% of unrwa employees are believed to have some "general affiliation" with Hamas and that seems to be where the 1200 number comes from. Going from that to "having something to do with Oct 7th" seems ridic.
Probably so, it's really just out of principle against many bad things about SA that I don't like the US pseudo-alliance with them.
Better than siding with Iran
Ye i think this is the time to remind everyone that it is a dictatorship though, not a democracy.
They haven't voted since 2006
Hamas had a high popularity rating though
Uh... let's just say Hamas didn't know about the festival at first, finding one and then directing fighters to massacre them actually looks... worse? Why is this even an argument?
They also attacked at a kibbutz. They were aiming for civilians not military
There's a reason the health ministry doesn't differentiate between civilian and military casualties.
If I get time, I'll look into it more, but checking... The Israeli government seems to be claiming that 190 unrwa employees were fighters and that 10% of unrwa employees are believed to have some "general affiliation" with Hamas and that seems to be where the 1200 number comes from. Going from that to "having something to do with Oct 7th" seems ridic.
Wsj story is firewalled I'm curious what that uncovered
Uh... let's just say Hamas didn't know about the festival at first, finding one and then directing fighters to massacre them actually looks... worse? Why is this even an argument?
bc facts matter.
and again, there are still a lot of questions on who killed most of the civilians and what the intent of Hamas was. it sure looks to me like the point was to take hostages and they would have ended up with a lot more if Israel didnt go all "mass Hannibal directive" on them.
and if you would have asked me on Oct 7 if taking hostages is a reasonable and defensible endeavor, I would have been like nah thats not cool. but seeing how Israel treats these people, I am not nearly as sure.
so Israeli kills this 6 yr old girls whole family and traps her in the car with their corpses. Palestinian medics arrange to go get her with Israel. medics mysteriously become incommunicado when they reach nearby. real weird. who could know what is going? ah well, I am sure this was a legit way to fight Hamas and Israel is doing all it can.
I am sure there is a totally reasonable explanation for this and its not that the Israeli Occupation Forces used a 6 yr old girl as bait to kill even more paramedics.
There's an element of the news, fanning the flames for additional revenue to make it seem like the kids have all determined that hamas is better than israel but there's a lot in play with how kids age and the sinister aspect of the internet.
Like, polling the age range of those who believe "hamas is better than israel" would yield a nearly identical chart if you substituted that question for "did we land on the moon" It doesn't reveal anything useful that we didn't already know.
as for narrative, I can only speculate on what their plan was. I dont think it was to just do a bunch of rape and murder. if I had to guess they intended to murder soldiers and take hostages. seems that some fighters proceeded to commit war crime and we will never know the extent or which ones were involved (remember that many resistance groups other than Hamas were involved)..
Your source says:
"Senior Israeli security officials estimate that Hamas found out about the Nova music festival through drones or from those flying in parachutes, and directed the terrorists to the location using their comms system
Is the difference that they might not have googled what would be happening at that location before they sent the drones and/or the men in parachutes, they instead only visually confirmed it was a music festival before they began the terrorist attack? I'm not following. It seems like this source clearly states that Hamas was aware that this was a music festival and not IDF soldiers.
If i wanted to kill a bunch of military soldiers i would definitely go to a music festival on shabbat and assume they were soldiers ...
You posted your source in reply to this from mets. Do you think what you posted somehow disproves what mets said instead of corroborates what he said?
I think the Nagasaki atomic bomb drop (unpremeditated location, decided at the last minute because of weather problems regarding the original location they wanted to bomb which was heavy in military industry) was much worse than Hiroshima (which was chosen for military reasons)
There's an element of the news, fanning the flames for additional revenue to make it seem like the kids have all determined that hamas is better than israel but there's a lot in play with how kids age and the sinister aspect of the internet.
Like, polling the age range of those who believe "hamas is better than israel" would yield a nearly identical chart if you substituted that question for "did we land on the moon" It doesn't reveal anyth
Age correlates with that only because age correlates with being a radical leftist, but if you poll the radical leftism of people that correlates a lot better.
Correlation between people who would claim "the Democratic party is too right-wing to ever deserve my vote" and "Hamas is better than Israel" would be more than 0.9
Your source says:
Is the difference that they might not have googled what would be happening at that location before they sent the drones and/or the men in parachutes, they instead only visually confirmed it was a music festival before they began the terrorist attack? I'm not following. It seems like this source clearly states that Hamas was aware that this was a music festival and not IDF soldiers.
You posted your source in reply to this f
not sure what you are belaboring. according to Shin Bet, no Hamas did not google and find out there was a music festival.
again, I just said it is worse if it was premeditated. are we now going to go 17 pages on why its not and then you call me a liar when I dont buy your opinions?
I think the Nagasaki atomic bomb drop (unpremeditated location, decided at the last minute because of weather problems regarding the original location they wanted to bomb which was heavy in military industry) was much worse than Hiroshima (which was chosen for military reasons)
the point of the atomic bombs was to kill as many civilians as possible. such a conclusion is not at all certain in the case of Oct 7. it looks to me like they wanted kill soldiers and take hostages.
incidentally, are Palestinians able to retire from Hamas in the eyes of yourself, Israel, or the West? or are they always marked for death? bc consistency is a bitch.
