Rating of players for Staking
The investing in to a poker player for stake in a particular tournament is becoming bigger and bigger.
There is a need of Poker Player Rating for investing purpose is needed to guide investors expectations.
IMHO these are some of the guiding criteria.
1, Players Honesty :
*There are many instances where players sells more than 100%.
* Sometimes refuses to pay ( I can remember atleast 2 players from Florida had bad reputation.
2, Reporting:
There are some tournaments where there is no live coverage and it’s impossible to get updates. ( In those instances some good players reports their progress on tweeter (X) or any other way. Many players completely ignores.
3, Multiple Flights & Multiple Bullets:
There are many tournaments with multiple starting days and multiple rebuys.
Many good players let their investors know if they were knocked out and they are on 2 nd or 3rd bullets etc.
There may be other information to make staking more trustable experience.
If you have any suggestions please share.
Thx
Have only taken part in staking other players online for the short time I played at GG poker.
The one thing GG did/does well is there staking feature. Loved it and had no complaints and haven't thought about how to improve it but it likely could be. Nothing's perfect after all. I wish Pokerstars would add this feature. For the small size/time I was on GG I did ok at picking guys to stake. Thing about staking is one has to spend a bit of time watching, studying and researching the players before deciding which to stake at what markup. So it takes some work to get your best chances and odds when staking players. Using GG's pokercraft helped....I personally prefered Sharkscope(which GG won't allow now). You can't trust GG to be completely straight up with anything judging off past history.
As for staking in real life hell no. Trust some stranger who's likely a scamming degenerate poker player with my money on his word alone? Not chance. I learned early in life NEVER trust anyone with your money EVER. My old man always said the biggest most common scam ever starts with the words "could you loan me some money......"
Staking done right online and completely controlled by the site like GG does it isn't really a worry in my experience. Those ideas likely wouldn't hurt for live play though. Humans are humans thou so a guy could have a great record and history of being honest right up until he doesn't and he screws you over.
Cheers!!!
As per my personal experience, I will keep on rating players who offers staking base on following :
A+ :Players who offers staking at reasonable
m/u or no mark up. Reasonably posting update of current events on social media. Answer inquiries in reasonable time.Had good or great Record of tournaments winnings in the past .( Over Million in Winnings &/or over 100 results on Hendon Mob )
A :Players who offers staking at reasonable m/u ( 20% or under )or no mark up. Reasonably posting update of current events on social media. Answer inquiries in reasonable time.Had moderate Record of tournaments winnings in the past . ($ over 400 to 500k winnings & over 25 results on Hendon Mob.)
B : Players who offers staking at reasonable m/u or no mark up. Reasonably posting update of current events on social media. Answer inquiries in reasonable time.Had minimal or little past record of winnings. (Under 100k winnings and under 25 results on Hendon Mob )
B- :Players who has great/good Records in the past but charges 20% or more m/u and no social media contact or updates for buyers
C. : New Players with very Little records( under $50K in tournaments winnings as per hendon mob ) but hot lately with good references.
D : Avoid . Known for scamming in past .
For example I will put as per my experience with them :
A+: Josh Arieh, Daniel Negreanu , Allen Kessler , JonathanLittle , Jeremy Ausmus
etc
A : Tiffany Michelle
B:
B-: Elanit Hasas, Chris Conrad (No contacts or response )
C:
D:
* These List is my personal experience & guidelines for myself for future investment.
Please share your experience to solidify other people future staking investment.
If you rate someone below b- please also explain reasoning.
hard disagree on paying 1.2 in mu
i think few are worth buying at more than 1.1
I understand your view point. But I don’t mind some top players charging 20% m/u considering the cost of hotel ,travel, food etc associated with playing poker tournaments .
Again above rating standards is beginning and to start something useful to investors as nothing exists at present.
I hope everyone adding their thoughts and logical suggestions will eventually develops as standards for Staking Investment.
But you are correct as I see some below average/ total newbie poker players charging 20 to 40% m/u !!!
I don't think I'd invest in anyone I didn't know unless it was just a small punt or purely for fun.
There's definitely going to be a strong correlation between Hendon results and player quality, but I will say that some of the guys with monster Hendon pages are also in there firing 3-4 bullets in everything when possible. It's not that they aren't quality players, but part of the reason for their impressive results is that they're putting in a lot more volume than most people by virtue of firing lots of bullets. Reg, play aggro to spin up a stack, bust, repeat until you're deep. Then on your Hendon it looks like you're cashing almost every day. People can't see that you're in there for 3-4 bullets and losing money if you don't make the final table.
To me there's really no substitute for sitting with someone and seeing how they play. Whatever my skill level may be as a player, I'm pretty good at putting other players in a box and figuring out who is good within a few orbits or at least a few hours. If you're just going on word of mouth or Hendon pages, you're not going to be as well-informed.
I don't think I'd invest in anyone I didn't know unless it was just a small punt or purely for fun.
There's definitely going to be a strong correlation between Hendon results and player quality, but I will say that some of the guys with monster Hendon pages are also in there firing 3-4 bullets in everything when possible. It's not that they aren't quality players, but part of the reason for their impressive results is that they're putting i
Agree with this. I’ve seen people with $300-500k in scores that open limp lol. Hendon mob is tough to judge because there are some boss online players that have few scores bc they don’t play live much / folks that aren’t really that good and just put in a lot of live play so they have scores.
Anyone can get some scores. It’s honestly how they do when you look at whole picture. I would rather someone cash less but play super aggro and win more often and run over final tables when they get there. A lot of live players that do ok pass on 3! And 4! In spots they shouldn’t and just play too cautious- aggression is huge in tourny play- I want the person that maximizes there times when they are slammed by the deck by playing aggro. Anyone can luckbox a tourny but I want the guys that maximize their good luck when a tourny goes well. Say what you want but a great player might have 4 mill in chips during a good run while a bad live reg might only get 2-2.5mill bc they play too passive. To me with tournaments- playing to maximize run good is crucial. Stupid thing to say but I just think recs goof when they run well in a tourny and don’t get full value for that run good which is horrible for long run poker success
Have only taken part in staking other players online for the short time I played at GG poker.
The one thing GG did/does well is there staking feature. ….Loved it and had no complaints ….I wish Pokerstars would add this feature…..,,,,As for staking in real life hell no. Trust some stranger who's likely a scamming degenerate poker player with my money on his word alone? Not chance. I learned early in life NEVER trust anyone
Thx for your opinion. I think I trust Poker Stake ( Josh Arieh ) system.
I was told that they checked every seller’s tournament entry tickets (buy-in receipts) before they pay out. And I believe it as I consider it’s words from Mr. Arieh and he is not going to risk his reputation for anyone and any amount.
This is my opinion.
My questions were for sellers. I come to conclusion that if everyone starts asking for updates during the tournaments, ignoring players with ridiculous Mark ups according to their results.
I think 0-10% m/u should be standard of good investment depending on their results.
For supper stars* 0-20% is reasonable. Anyway most super stars offers at No M/U as their intention is to limit their exposure and make their fans/investor happy.
As staking is becoming more and more popular I think big tournaments (WSOP/WPT etc) should come up with some kind of recognition system like GG poker system mentioned above
I wish everyone will post their experience with different staking they did with rating of the players with their personal experience.
Idea of this thread is not to criticize any sellers or their asking for m/u but to guide investor community by sharing the experience.
I just saw a very high m/u on Pokerstake.
50% Mark Ups. !!!!
A good player but not at the Top . Listed around 3800 in the all time money list with less than 1 million life time cash.
Either this was done to oblige Pokerstake or some other goofy reason.
Yes I understand it’s Seller’s & Buyer's choice.
Let’s see a hypothetical scenario :
Buy-in is $2000+$200.
Someone paid $22+ $11(m/u)=$33 for 1% stake.
The seller is only runner in the tournament and declared winner.
After 3% deduction for dealer and staff winner was paid whole prize pool of $1940 as he/she was only participant in the tournament.
Even he/she wins , investor will only get $19.40 for their investment of $33 !!
I know it’s a unrealistic scenario.
But please use common sense while selling and buying stake with high Mark Ups.
Just be realistic.
Here is numbers & Facts:
As per All Time Money List
#. Life time $$ winings
All time money list#.Lifetime Winnings .
For example #1 has 65 Million winnings
# 100 has 12 Million winnings
1-100. 65 Mil to 12 Million
101-200. 12 Mil to 7 Million
201-300. 7.4 Mil to 5.6 Million
301-400. 5.6 Mil to 4.68Million
401-500. 4.68 Mil to 3.9Million
901-1000. 2.5 Mil to 2.36 Million
1901-2000 1.37 Mil to 1.31 Million
In my opinion
# 1-200 can command 0-20% M/U
# 201-500 can ask for 0-15% M/U
# 501-1000 can ask for 0-10% M/U
# 1001-2000 can expect 0-5% M/U.
Again this is my opinion. Please feel free to express your opinion.
a lot of the people in your list are down money overall
True , this is just one guideline,every buyer has their own standards and different rules for buying stake in individual players.
When you see a player has only limited amount of cashes and less than 1 million in lifetime $$ income and asking 30% -50% Mark-up .!!!
When buyers becomes smarter and refuses to pay ridiculous M/U , sellers will come down to logical levels.
As per my personal experience, I will keep on rating players who offers staking base on following :
A+ :Players who offers staking at reasonable
m/u or no mark up. Reasonably posting update of current events on social media. Answer inquiries in reasonable time.Had good or great Record of tournaments winnings in the past .( Over Million in Winnings &/or over 100 results on Hendon Mob )
A :Players who offers staking at reasonable m/u ( 20% or u
I found out Ms. Hasas did post her updates under EllaElla @Elanit very regularly.
I will update my list:
For example I will put as per my experience with them :
A+: Josh Arieh, Daniel Negreanu , Allen Kessler , JonathanLittle , Jeremy Ausmus
etc
A : Tiffany Michelle, Elanit Hasas
B:
B-: Chris Conrad (No contacts or response )
C:
D:
Please post your opinion based on your staking experience and help staking investor community with your experience.
allen kessler is down lifetime
would not be surprised at all if tiffany michelle and jonathan little are as well
I just noticed a player asking 1.41 % mark/up in Wynne Million!!!
He has little over 3 Mil in lifetime cash and 60+ lifetime cashes.
Seems like he doesn’t want to really sale his staking.
Otherwise it’s a laughable ask !!
Just my opinion !!
I just came across a very good player. She has over 1 million in winnings. She knows how to grind and survive. She is very friendly, Always updates even during the event.
Victoria Livschitz. A+
I will update my list:
For example I will put as per my experience with them :
A+: Josh Arieh, Daniel Negreanu , Allen Kessler , JonathanLittle , Jeremy Ausmus, Victoria Livschitz.
A : Tiffany Michelle, Elanit Hasas
B:
B-: Chris Conrad (No contacts or response )
C:
D:
Please post your opinion based on your staking experience and help staking investor community with your experience.
again, allen kessler is like kitty kuo, has money/other streams of income and decide to spend their days grinding the poker tourney circuit
neither are winning players
again, allen kessler is like kitty kuo, has money/other streams of income and decide to spend their days grinding the poker tourney circuit
neither are winning players
Don’t know about Kitty Kuo but Allen’s profile doesn’t seems like other income stream!! Unless you have some solid inside information.
But you are definitely correct about not being a winning player.
10% of all american households are millionaires
there's a lot more money out there than you could possibly imagine
poker is a big draw for the idle rich
No matter how good he may be but if the player has no time to refund your unused staking, he is as bad as those who doesn’t pay after winning
One of them is Jake Daniels . He has no contact and doesn’t have time to spare for refund of unused staking.!!
I will update my list:
For example I will put as per my experience with them :
A+: Josh Arieh, Daniel Negreanu , Allen Kessler , JonathanLittle , Jeremy Ausmus, Victoria Livschitz.
A : Tiffany Michelle, Elanit Hasas
B:
B-: Chris Conrad (No contacts or response ), Jake Daniel,
C:
D:
Please post your opinion based on your staking experience and help staking investor community with your experience.
A+ on everything kessler but he is def not a winning player.
i would like to know why sites dont put overall results on their staking site.
A+ on everything kessler but he is def not a winning player.
i would like to know why sites dont put overall results on their staking site.
I know that Kessler is not winning player. But Poker is game about imperfect information.
We can only judge someone on whatever is available information.
I don’t justify anyone charging anything over 10% m/u . But I think there has to be some standard to be established. Kessler mostly ask for 0-20% m/u.
I have seen many players with much lesser results asking 30-50% m/u. And many players don’t even answer any questions after selling the stake . Some even don’t bother to refund unused staking in timely manner.
If we all start asking questions or ignoring those staking then market will adjust to correct levels.
Any players who has a great/good record but don’t want to report the progress of the event (Not even once or twice) I will avoid them an consider them b-
