Israel/Palestine thread

Starving Gazans are now sneaking out of the rubble at night to eat grass.

Do the Israel supporters here have any red lines at all?

Chris Hedges.

I am ok with blue helmets from the UN distributing aid to Palestinians, and I am actually willing to pay my share of those costs as a western taxpayer.

Would that be enough with you?

You've tabled your cards as a Jewish supremecist. It's good that you're open about it, but the answer to a question like this from any non Jewish supremacist is basically going to be "I'm not a Jewish supremacist."

Islamists have done horrible attacks in the UK, Spain, France, The US. Black nationalists and white nationalists have both done attacks in the US, etc.

It happens. If you think one Jewish life is worth a thousand or more gentile lives, then you have your answer. Genocide anyone who poses the slightest threat.

Most people don't think that.

It's pretty unlikely that gentiles will come around to seeing themselves as worthless compared to Jews and agree to policies based on that premise.

For the rest of us, these attacks are horrible crimes, like serial murders or child porn or whatever. You try to prevent it. You try to catch people who do it. But, if you want a free and just society, it's gonna happen.

Like, we could eliminate most sex crimes with castration of all men. But it's not worth it. That doesn't mean one is in favor of rape, but that there are limits to how you combat it.

I guess my answer would be agree? I thought that was basically a well known fact

The intent is to destabilize the enemy. Figure every country is doing that everywhere in some way, shape, or form

Doesn't mean the US can't bear out a success story like Japan or South Korea...

None of what is happening now is going to normalize relations. Feels like it's simply going to make things worse

If you agree Iran (and perhaps Qatar and others) are financing terrorism among Palestinians, why do you think "moderates" will be able to avoid that from happening again?

Aren't we in a position where we need external control of the area for at least a generation?

Basically my take is that no one of Palestinian ancestry should wield any power in Gaza until at the very least 2050.

They are a failed people ruling over a failed proto-state and someone else should be in charge until we can hope time will create a new generation of leaders capable of cutting all ties with their horrific past.

That, if you want to minimize chances of Jews being assassinated by terrorists in their home country

I've never heard the plo called moderates before

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-father-...

Arafat the head of the plo

Don’t Israelis believe there is a home for every Jew in Israel?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/m...

The true story of Camp David was that for the first time in the history of the conflict the American president put on the table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to terrorism."
Clinton was speaking of the two-week-long Camp David conference in July 2000 which he had organised and mediated and its failure, and the eruption at the end of September of the Palestinian intifada which has continued since. Halfway through the conference, apparently on July 18, Clinton had "slowly" - to avoid misunderstanding - read out to Arafat a document, endorsed in advance by Barak, outlining the main points of a future settlement. The proposals included the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state on some 92% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8% of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy "functional autonomy"; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and "custodianship," though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no "right of return" to Israel proper; and the organisation by the international community of a massive aid programme to facilitate the refugees' rehabilitation.

Arafat said no. Enraged, Clinton banged on the table and said: "You are leading your people and the region to a catastrophe." A formal Palestinian rejection of the proposals reached the Americans the next day. The summit sputtered on for a few days more but to all intents and purposes it was over.-

The plo was moderate?

Do you think the aspirations of current day IDF are reasonable and acceptable ?

I mean man, here we are listening to all the arguments...

PLO is moderate and Iran is a friend of Israel

Ye and there actually is, and is defended by western blood and gold, we owe them that much.

Did you read what happened to the uss liberty?

The PLO wasn't offered a state or an end of the occupation, or recognition from Israel, yet they still gave up the gun. What more did you want?

What are the dates of the quotes you offer, that's crucial. They are pre-Oslo, no?

Would you consider yourself a moderate? (or close)

I deleted a bunch of posts itt that either were mod related or were critiquing/attacking other posters rather than rebutting arguments. See my detailed remarks in the mod thread.

Please do not comment on the deletions in this thread.

... You can learn a lot just reading without commenting. I've been reading through the last 50 pages or so and you see stuff like this and you appreciate people for showing their true colors and biases.

True supremacist.

This is a complicated topic and there are no easy solutions but what netenyahu and Israel are doing right now is just flat out wrong.

See something? Say something as we like to say. Who is the true terrorist ?

Not in general no. I might be for some topics but already being a libertarian, a very minoritarian group extremely pro freedom, makes me non-moderate on many topics

Libertarians and ancap guys would get killed and robbed so fast it’s funny

I'm guessing DS is making an oblique reference to the nobel lie. The 'torture when alone' for those responsible for killing children is hell (or belief in hell).

Anarchists probably, not sure why you think that's the case for people who want the state to exist but are against regulations in the economy and redistributive welfare

Exactly whose deaths do you find funny?