Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Here's post two.
We know nobody swaps their family to save a family of Gazans. I didn't need to ask.
So what about your village? I grew up in one. If my family was spared but my whole village was on the line, would I have those 500 villagers die to save 2500 "others"? No. I can promise you that's an easy no. Those were my friends (and their families), town and religious leaders, neighbors, shop keepers I cared for, teachers, seniors who were
And this defense is even worse. You actually spent time writing this out.
Your premise is all these civilian deaths are an imperative. They are not.
Some of you wouldn’t have contributed much to the formation of early society.
The discussion about relative value of lives of known versus unknown persons reminded me of this old twilight zone episode. It is actually from the remake of the series from the 80s but this particular episode was written by one of the writers from the original series in the 60s.
The Torah says it's morally wrong to murder a stranger even to save yourself,
I'm not sure i agree
We’re back to magical ancient book morality
Sigh
The problem with these arguments is the false comparison. Israel isn't saving Israelis by killing Gazan citizens with the current strategy.
Morality discussions aside - very much this.
It's nowhere near clear that any of this is making Israel safer. At least as likely this is making Israel less safe.
The problem with these arguments is the false comparison. Israel isn't saving Israelis by killing Gazan citizens with the current strategy.
Well this is debatable (and we are debating it).
But keep in mind we started by answering a specific tradeoff question about "how many Palestinian civilian deaths are too many", under the implied assumption you can't avoid them dying while you go after Hamas.
I know your strategy would be to ask the political arm of Hamas to give up on the military arm of Hamas, I just don't see that happening even with a ceasefire.
Gaza was considered and called "occupied by Israel" by pro-palestinian people, because of the blockade which started in 2006 right?
Then why don't they mention the fact that egypt is as responsible as Israel for that blockade? why don't they throw rockets at egypt?
Gaza was considered and called "occupied by Israel" by pro-palestinian people, because of the blockade which started in 2006 right?
Then why don't they mention the fact that egypt is as responsible as Israel for that blockade? why don't they throw rockets at egypt?
I've asked this in this thread and the response I've gotten is "Israel forces Egypt to blockade rafa"
That of course isn't true, egypt blockades gaza for the same reason israel does: they live next to terrorists and need to protect their citizens. But that doesn't fit the anti israel narrative so they ignore it
Egypt hosts 9 million refugees. The country is going through an economic crisis and Sinai itself is lacking in necessities to take on my refugees.
Furthermore taking in Gazan refugees means taking in Hamas. A situation where terrorists in Egypt are launching rockets at Israel is awful for everyone. The situation where Iran and Pakistan were trading missiles would be very similar.
A two state solution is the most realistic solution. That doesn't mean it's likely to work.
Egypt hosts 9 million refugees. The country is going through an economic crisis and Sinai itself is lacking in necessities to take on my refugees.
Furthermore taking in Gazan refugees means taking in Hamas. A situation where terrorists in Egypt are launching rockets at Israel is awful for everyone. The situation where Iran and Pakistan were trading missiles would be very similar.
A two state solution is the most realistic solution. That does
Excuse me WAT?
https://www.unhcr.org/eg/about-us/refuge...
Besides, i wrote something a little different, i said egypt is as responsible as israel for the BLOCKADE of the last 17 years (refugees are a different matter), why aren't palestinians and pro palestinians people condemning egypt as an occupier of Gaza and as the source of the problem as much as israel?
As for refugees: we pay through the UN, and given the very low cost of living and wages in egypt, what we pay would be more than enough to cover all expenses. Instead of UNRWA we can give the money to the government of egypt to take care of palestinian refugees and buy whatever necessities are needed for them in sinai.
Hamas tunnel infrastructure seems pretty good and they don't seem to have a lack of weapons. Unless Iran is air dropping all those supplies I'd guess that Egyptian blockade isn't so air tight.
Look at the length of the borders vis a vi Israel and Egypt. That will tell you who's doing the most blockading.
Egypt hosts 9 million refugees. The country is going through an economic crisis and Sinai itself is lacking in necessities to take on my refugees.
Furthermore taking in Gazan refugees means taking in Hamas. A situation where terrorists in Egypt are launching rockets at Israel is awful for everyone. The situation where Iran and Pakistan were trading missiles would be very similar.
A two state solution is the most realistic solution. That does
Egypt has blockaded gaza since two thousand six
And this defense is even worse. You actually spent time writing this out.
Your premise is all these civilian deaths are an imperative. They are not.
Some of you wouldn’t have contributed much to the formation of early society.
Do this with Hamas and how it maximizes human death on that side, and you'll discover that there's a whole other side to what you're saying. How many civilians need to die in a war where one side launches rockets from BEHIND them? There are two groups fighting here. Just one puts their women and children out front.
Protesting mass child war casualties is hypocritical if you don’t donate to world health charities is so bizarre and intellectually disorganized that it’s not worth rebutting. Just lol.
I'm saying if the net net is saving lives, I think everyone should do the most they can, anywhere they can. Does that make sense?
You can protest in here all you want. But there are truly easy ways to save children, and not everyone realizes how accessible and attainable they are.
Microbet has been temp banned for 3 days for insulting another poster. I dont know how else to say it, so stop calling other posters racist or other personal attacks. It doesnt matter whether you think they are or not. If they make what you believe is a racist post, either rebut it or report it. Stop with the name calling.
Are any of you like.....reporting these? I haven't done one. I'm gonna guess Mets hasn't. Don't think GS3737 has (could be wrong).
Just wanna clear up the conspiracies here. I certainly don' t do anything other than the ignore feature. Micro is a passionate dude, clearly.
Gaza was considered and called "occupied by Israel" by pro-palestinian people, because of the blockade which started in 2006 right?
Then why don't they mention the fact that egypt is as responsible as Israel for that blockade? why don't they throw rockets at egypt?
how many Palestinian hostages does egypt have and how many Palestinians has egypt killed since 2006?
I've asked this in this thread and the response I've gotten is "Israel forces Egypt to blockade rafa"
That of course isn't true, egypt blockades gaza for the same reason israel does: they live next to terrorists and need to protect their citizens. But that doesn't fit the anti israel narrative so they ignore it
its cause israeli is illegally killing palestinians. there is your answer. if one country attacks and kills a group of people, those people fight back in anyway they can. This is often called BLOWBACK
Do this with Hamas and how it maximizes human death on that side, and you'll discover that there's a whole other side to what you're saying. How many civilians need to die in a war where one side launches rockets from BEHIND them? There are two groups fighting here. Just one puts their women and children out front.
Im confused, you dont think throwing a rave with 1000 people on the front lines and then launching counter attacks behind them is different?
I'm saying if the net net is saving lives, I think everyone should do the most they can, anywhere they can. Does that make sense?
You can protest in here all you want. But there are truly easy ways to save children, and not everyone realizes how accessible and attainable they are.
no they realize them they just dont care
I spent the past two pages asking how many deaths are too many and they said there is no number too high lmao
clearly they dont care
Hamas tunnel infrastructure seems pretty good and they don't seem to have a lack of weapons. Unless Iran is air dropping all those supplies I'd guess that Egyptian blockade isn't so air tight.
Egypt's objective is to keep the Palestinians out of Egypt. I dont think they are too concerned with weapons going in the other way. Or at least they haven't been. Hopefully Oct 7th and Hamas's actions the last 4+ months are causing regional players to reassess their opinions towards facilitating Palestinian terrorism. Obviously a lot of European countries are belatedly realizing how the UN is big part of the problem.
Also, A LOT of weapons invariably are getting in via the thousands of UN "aid" trucks coming in every day. And knowing where the majority of UN aid money comes from, it is just as fair to say we (the United States taxpayer) are funding Palestinian terrorism as much as Israeli bombs.
