Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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There are some weird people on the very far extremist right who are pro Israel yet convinced there is a Jew conspiracy here or there to destroy their societies yes.
Those are drunk "rosso Bruno" (red-black) "horseshoe communists", Tucker is a Marxist for example
In the USA those weirdo Evangelicals are a very large percentage of the country.
ISRAELI MINISTER ELI COHEN OFFICIAL STATEMENT
“We would prefer not to reach peace agreements if they would lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
Saw a poll a few days ago. Most Israelis oppose a second state. No end in sight for the violence.
If palestinian goal is to eventually get the entire land for themselves, can someone please explain to me how a palestinian state would end the violence? Instead of just turning what is more or less a civil war into a war between two states?
Israel is a democracy with a million links to Western countries involving trade, tourism, millions of people working together etc etc and it should and does care about its reputation in other countries. A dictatorship where the entire economy revolves around exporting completely fungible raw materials doesn't need to care about the opinions of people who just consume some of their oil or cobalt without having any idea where it comes from.
Israel has informally and formally normalized relations with much of the Muslim world, including countries it fought multiple wars with in the not too distant past. I think Israel has proven it is responsive if incentives are lined up correctly.
The Palestinians for their part have given Israel absolutely nothing to work with. Israel is just told it should unilaterally "ceasefire" while the Palestinians promise nothing but a generational continuation of the conflict.
Israel has informally and formally normalized relations with much of the Muslim world, including countries it fought multiple wars with in the not too distant past. I think Israel has proven it is responsive if incentives are lined up correctly.
The Palestinians for their part have given Israel absolutely nothing to work with. Israel is just told it should unilaterally "ceasefire" while the Palestinians promise nothing but a generational
It's more the Arab countries that changed. Egypt agreed to and was paid for peace. Jordan, SA, The Gulf States (all the Kingdoms) realized their interests were aligned with Israel and after the Iranian Revolution the big threat is Iran vs others - mostly Saudi Arabia. Since the Iranian Revolution, Israel has mostly had conflict with Iran allied factions like Hezbollah. Hamas is aligned with Iran. The anti-Iranian states see Israel as somewhat like-minded (as it has become more right-wing) and allied against Iran.
ISRAELI MINISTER ELI COHEN OFFICIAL STATEMENT
“We would prefer not to reach peace agreements if they would lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state.”
Saw a poll a few days ago. Most Israelis oppose a second state. No end in sight for the violence.
I think they feel if they agreev to the state now, oct 7 was justified
I think there will eventually be 2 states but i get how Israel can't say that right now
No one here is okay with Islamic fundamentalism, this is just a cheap deflection away from all of those bodies that are piling up.
That is not what that sentence says, no matter how many times you try to deflect from the point I'm making.
If people have no fundamental objection to the EXISTENCE of nations self-determined by Islamic people, then the concept of Zionism is no different. People can't be ok with a colossal Islamic world with nations built on Islamic laws and cultural pillars, and not be ok with Zionism.
Before the Empires broke down into nation states, if you took the amount of Jews in the middle east, and assigned land to them based head count for example, then Israel should have been about 5 times bigger. But the Jews were ok with what they got. Islam got ALL the rest (and some Christian parts here and there).
If people have no fundamental objection to the EXISTENCE of nations self-determined by Islamic people, then the concept of Zionism is no different.
People can't be ok with a colossal Islamic world with nations built on Islamic laws and cultural pillars, and not be ok with Zionism.
You and Mets are the only guys here who are okay with ethno/religious states.
If palestinian goal is to eventually get the entire land for themselves, can someone please explain to me how a palestinian state would end the violence? Instead of just turning what is more or less a civil war into a war between two states?
The state would eventually have airports and military
No one here is okay with Islamic fundamentalism, this is just a cheap deflection away from all of those bodies that are piling up.
what's the plan for the very serious people around here who agree that all the countries that ban homosexuality because of radical islam (or christianity) must change right now in this moment and we are morally obligated to help the millions of homosexuals currently trapped by those regimes? would you agree with a complete economic blackout of those countries sustained by all first world countries? bombing them untily they do what we ask? why not if not?
What's your plan to make algeria multicultural? would you suspend it from the UN until it allows millions of indian immigrants? any other plan? or you basically don't give a **** actually nor you agree with anyone doing anything to force it being multicultural? and if algeria is to be spared why is Ireland not?
What's your plan to make algeria multicultural? would you suspend it from the UN until it allows millions of indian immigrants? any other plan? or you basically don't give a **** actually nor you agree with anyone doing anything to force it being multicultural? and if algeria is to be spared why is Ireland not?
Secularism and multiculturalism are two different things
quick update. this man was not actually killed as I had thought certainly had happened!
his family and children were not so lucky.
since most people wont click, they sniped his dad and wife and then came back 2 days later and murdered his children.
certainly none of the soldiers nor anyone in Israel supports this or enjoys it. its like a NYT article, it just happened.
similarly
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/20...
we can be certain that no one wanted this to happen and no one supports it. if anything, the 5 year olds forced the Israelis to do this by being so antisemitic.
what's the plan for the very serious people around here who agree that all the countries that ban homosexuality because of radical islam (or christianity) must change right now in this moment and we are morally obligated to help the millions of homosexuals currently trapped by those regimes? would you agree with a complete economic blackout of those countries sustained by all first world countries? bombing them untily they do what we ask? w
I’m not a very serious people but the logic is flawed. I don’t think any country bans homosexuality because of islam.
I wrote multicultural, as the objection was to ethnostates, not just to religious states.
Trollson is "not ok with ethno states" so i am asking what's his plan to fix currently existing ethnostates.
Otherwise, what does "being not ok" mean?
It's good Victor that you're finally admitting that there are no bloodthirsty people in the world.
I’m not a very serious people but the logic is flawed. I don’t think any country bans homosexuality because of islam.
So when they implement actual sharia law, they call it such, they say the book of the prophet forbids homosexuality, and make homosexuality a crime, it's not because of islam?
Hi viktor, you shouldn't believe that crap. But feel free to post that crap anyway, just don't whine if we don't click.
So when they implement actual sharia law, they call it such, they say the book of the prophet forbids homosexuality, and make homosexuality a crime, it's not because of islam?
look at all the christian countries that treated homosexuals far worse for many years up until 50 years ago. Like for example Spain and Brazil. I don’t think they stopped being christian places, I just think they became more advanced despite being christian and stopped discriminating against gay guys. Same with islamic countries eventually
Does “banned” no longer mean “banned?”
Hi viktor, you shouldn't believe that crap. But feel free to post that crap anyway, just don't whine if we don't click.
oh so that guy was not tortured even though it was posted from that Israeli soldier tiktok?
or Israelis are not having a rave party while they block food to starving people?
or the American doctor who wrote an op-ed in the LA Times is lying?
nah, I definitely believe it bc you know, its true.
