Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
always nice when an official can see the truth and express it
Not an "official" of anything as indicated in the "expert" definition provided.
Anyway she is all over italian media and she is one of the worst hamas apologists around so it's easier than usual to disregard anything she claims
As long as they say it wasn't for their Judaism they can claim it wasn't antisemitism
Not an "official" of anything as indicated in the "expert" definition provided.
Anyway she is all over italian media and she is one of the worst hamas apologists around so it's easier than usual to disregard anything she claims
the UN did not dismiss her claims
As long as they say it wasn't for their Judaism they can claim it wasn't antisemitism
ok lets say it was just antisemitism and not due to an oppressive and murderous 75 years. does that make it OK for Israeli soldiers to assault and rape Palestinian women?
As long as they say it wasn't for their Judaism they can claim it wasn't antisemitism
She is also quite funny; she keeps referreing to herself as a lawyer, but when asked for proof of bar membership, she didn't provide it (and the italian bar doesn't have her name in the lists).
Her husband worked for the palestinian authority
how can they, they have no way to vet the credibility of her reports (nor can you or me or anyone else).
So it's just about believing her or not
ok, Francesca was just one person in the panel of experts that found these claims credible enough to call for an investigation.
maybe all of these people just love Hamas and hate Jews just like Franny I dunno
seems reasonable! lets see if Israel complies!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesca_...
Albanese recommended in her first report that UN member states develop "a plan to end the Israeli settler-colonial occupation and apartheid regime".[4]
Albanese's appointment as the UN Special Rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territories[5] generated controversy due to comments made in 2014 in which she described the United States as "subjugated by the Jewish lobby" and Europe by a "sense of guilt about the Holocaust
Yeah. She sounds totally legit. 😆
ok, Francesca was just one person in the panel of experts that found these claims credible enough to call for an investigation.
maybe all of these people just love Hamas and hate Jews just like Franny I dunno
You are getting it! if you associate with Albanese and don't denounce her as a friend of terrorists and refuse to have any working relationship with her, you are pro hamas and anti jews!
See it's easy if you try
Oh btw the same is true for basically all your twitter or otherwise sources in general, i made the exception to intervene here because Albanese is very very very very well known in Italy as of late (we are talking being on main tv channels almost every day, and being covered & discussed from both sides of the political spectrum on main newspapers).
Anyway in any way associated with hamas and with a pro -palestine history and antisemitic comment history, can be fully discarded.
You help us craft the list of the bad sources basically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesca_...
Yeah. She sounds totally legit. 😆
I dont see the lie. in one sense, a "2 state solution" would meet those qualifications.
You are getting it! if you associate with Albanese and don't denounce her as a friend of terrorists and refuse to have any working relationship with her, you are pro hamas and anti jews!
See it's easy if you try
your argument is that the United Nations is pro- Hamas and anti-Jew
Oh btw the same is true for basically all your twitter or otherwise sources in general, i made the exception to intervene here because Albanese is very very very very well known in Italy as of late (we are talking being on main tv channels almost every day, and being covered & discussed from both sides of the political spectrum on main newspapers).
Anyway in any way associated with hamas and with a pro -palestine history and antisemitic comm
thats a rubric that you use bc if you looked at facts and truth and justice and human rights then you would be forced to face some very unnerving contradictions in your views.
Portions of it yes, objectively, approx 30 countries in the UN don't recognize the state of Israel lol, and many others are aligned with those 30 while still technically recognizing Israel existence.
Lula in Brazil just sided with hamas recently for example, and many other such cases.
Maybe you didn't know but there is a lot of antisemitism around the world, mostly among radical leftwing people (but not exclusively), and everywhere in the muslim world.
Portions of it yes, objectively, approx 30 countries in the UN don't recognize the state of Israel lol, and many others are aligned with those 30 while still technically recognizing Israel existence.
Lula in Brazil just sided with hamas recently for example, and many other such cases.
Maybe you didn't know but there is a lot of antisemitism around the world, mostly among radical leftwing people (but not exclusively), and everywhere in the mu
can you show me where "Lula sided with Hamas"?
https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-inc...
this is all I could find.
not really sure how feeding starving people rather than murdering them is pro-Hamas. maybe you could help with that?
we werent talking about Hamas. this was your post remember?
it was about Francesca. from those quotes, to me that looks like a 2 state solution!
we can discuss Hamas and Israel's preferences for a 2 state solution next if you like.
can you show me where "Lula sided with Hamas"?
https://www.reuters.com/world/israel-inc...
this is all I could find.
Drawing parallels between Israel today and nazi germany, as we already discussed ad nauseam, is what hamas and pro-hamas people do all the times and it's not even a dogwhistle, is a practical admission of being pro-hamas as much as you can say it without actually saying it because it can cause you international problems (given hamas is considered a terrorist organizations by many countries.
If you take any of hamas arguments and make them yours, you are pro hamas. Which btw is what happens also with people who used "occupied palestine territory" to refer to gaza: that's being pro hamas as well.
not really sure how feeding starving people rather than murdering them is pro-Hamas. maybe you could help with that?
UNRWA is at the very best fully infiltrated by hamas, at worst just another part of hamas, the money sent to it is used to kill jews in Israel, we have to cut it off completly.
If people want to send aid they should ask for blue helmets to be allowed to distribute the aid, no money should be given to palestianians in gaza directly because hamas controls everything in gaza.
Drawing parallels between Israel today and nazi germany, as we already discussed ad nauseam, is what hamas and pro-hamas people do all the times and it's not even a dogwhistle, is a practical admission of being pro-hamas as much as you can say it without actually saying it because it can cause you international problems (given hamas is considered a terrorist organizations by many countries.
If you take any of hamas arguments and make them yo
no this is simply not true.
its also really bad logic.
UNRWA is at the very best fully infiltrated by hamas, at worst just another part of hamas, the money sent to it is used to kill jews in Israel, we have to cut it off completly.
If people want to send aid they should ask for blue helmets to be allowed to distribute the aid, no money should be given to palestianians in gaza directly because hamas controls everything in gaza.
nor is this true, even by Israeli accusations. they asserted, without showing any evidence, that 12 members of the 13k Gazan UNRWA were involved with Hamas. those accusations are yet to be verified and Israel has failed to provide any evidence to well anyone.
in other words, the source is "trust me bro" from a regime that boosted an avalanche of lies over the last few months (and really decades).
Ye it's "trust me bro" territory in war with incessant propaganda , and you just trust your ally over his enemy, it's not complicated.
Quite funny to call a democratically elected government a regime , while defending a party which has suspended elections for 17 years lol
Ye it's "trust me bro" territory in war with incessant propaganda , and you just trust your ally over his enemy, it's not complicated.
Quite funny to call a democratically elected government a regime , while defending a party which has suspended elections for 17 years lol
I give more credibility to the people who have been more credible. not to the side who has lied about beheaded babies and rape to justify murdering innocent civilians.
I didnt realize Israel was democratically elected in Gaza and the West Bank. by International Law they are considered an Occupation force. so ya, thats a regime for ya.
https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/...
“Quando eu vejo o mundo rico anunciar que está parando de dar a contribuição para a questão humanitária aos palestinos, eu fico imaginando qual é o tamanho da consciência política dessa gente?”, disse o presidente.
“E qual é o tamanho do coração solidário dessa gente que não está vendo que na Faixa de Gaza não está acontecendo uma guerra, mas um genocídio?”, afirmou.
"O que está acontecendo na Faixa de Gaza e com o povo palestino não existe em nenhum outro momento histórico. Aliás, existiu: quando o Hitler resolveu matar os judeus."
“Não é uma guerra entre soldados e soldados. É uma guerra entre um Exército altamente preparado e mulheres e crianças. Se teve algum erro nessa instituição que recolhe o dinheiro, apura-se quem errou. Mas não suspenda a ajuda humanitária para o povo que tá há quantas décadas tentando construir o seu Estado”, disse o presidente.
Lula também reiterou que condena o Hamas e os ataques realizados por eles.
"O Brasil condena o Hamas, mas o Brasil não pode deixar de condenar o que Israel está fazendo na Faixa de Gaza", disse.
[quote=Lula]
"When I see the rich world announce that it's stopping to give aid for the humanitarian question of the Palestinians, I'm left imagining what the size of the political consciousness is for these people", said the president.
"And what is the size of the heart of solidarity of the people who aren't seeing that in the Gaze strip there is not a war happening, but a genocide", he affirmed.
"What is happening in the Gaze strip and with the Palestinian people has not existed in any other moment in history. But actually it existed when Hitler decided to kill the Jews."
"It's not a war between soldiers and soldiers. It's a war between a highly prepared army and women and children. If there was some error in the institution that collects the money, investigate who made the error. But don't suspend the aid for the people who have for so many decades tried to construct their state", said the president.
Lula also reiterated that he condemns Hamas and the attacks they made.
"Brazil condemns Hamas but Brazil is not able to not condemn what Israel is doing in the Gaza strip", he said.[/quote]
Translation is mine and if parts of it seem awkward it's because that's what Lula said and because I'm probably a bit too transliteral.
So Lula is condemning both Hamas and Israel-- which is basically what any reasonable person should be doing.
Lucium,
Victor speaks to his own truths, which dont really overlap very much with reality. Engage him if you want to, but dont expect to get anywhere.
Lucium,
Victor speaks to his own truths, which dont really overlap very much with reality. Engage him if you want to, but dont expect to get anywhere.
Do you think that Israel hasn't committed atrocities?
I get that there is lots of propaganda from both sides and that everything should be taken with a grain of salt-- I'm a huge believer in that position as you should know.
But I don't think it's all lies either.
It will be very sad when Israel kills the last Palestinian in each region of the genocide.
Who will be there to document it?
Translation is mine and if parts of it seem awkward it's because that's what Lula said and because I'm probably a bit too transliteral.
So Lula is condemning both Hamas and Israel-- which is basically what any reasonable person should be doing.
It is a bit of a pickle. No one minds in theory giving actual aid to the Palestinian people. Various nations (mostly the US, Europe and Arab Gulf states) have been doing it for 80 years. But most of the world also is starting to accept that Palestinian culture makes it so the aid is being squandered horribly, and just being used to perpetuate and endless cycle of violence and dependence.
It is just a horrible, cynical situation. The Palestinian people through Hamas are more or less demanding, "You have to give us aid or we will all die, but we also hate you and will squander the aid, keep fighting a losing war indefinitely, so that we will never be self sufficient and will rely on your welfare permanently."
Microbet likes to argue one of the reasons we should put pressure on Israel is because it in theory may work to modify behavior, but we shouldn't even bother with the Palestinians because they refuse to alter their behavior, and if we dont keep sending them aid a lot of them will die, so we should just keep writing blank checks. As Lucium argued with him yesterday, this just creates a horrible incentive structure, and is playing out in real time as one might expect.
