Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Poland was the victim lol , as well as baltic nations, during ww2, both of nazism and communism, unclear why you put those countries in the list of those who have to pay anything to third parties.
Gazans have taken refuge in many western nations in the past decades, i am not saying only muslim nations should take them. But in general it's better for someone to live in a place that shares his cultural values and political preferences, is it n
bc the residents of those countries stole Jewish homes and property and it was never repaid. in fact, when Jews returned to their homes after surviving the holocaust they were often murdered by thieves of their houses.
which, kinda makes you think, in what recent conflict have civilians and women and children been murdered while attempting to return to their homes?
was chappeles skit on this topic racist?
Poland was the victim lol , as well as baltic nations, during ww2, both of nazism and communism, unclear why you put those countries in the list of those who have to pay anything to third parties.
Gazans have taken refuge in many western nations in the past decades, i am not saying only muslim nations should take them. But in general it's better for someone to live in a place that shares his cultural values and political preferences, is it n
Poland was a victim. But, people just took everything from the Jews and moved into their houses and never gave them back to the heirs.
hmm, ya dont say. how could Victor have predicted this?
It's like the goal to eliminate Hamas. Some hostages are surely buried under buildings or blown to pieces. It's very very unlikely that every single hostage will ever be accounted for. So, it's just something people can say so they can justify the war continuing indefinitely.
todays edition of saying the quiet parts loud
you guys can watch the video and figure out which of these headlines is accurate and which is a lie
next up we have some pretty telling language
is it ok to kill 50k innocent people because 5k of your people *might* die?
bc the residents of those countries stole Jewish homes and property and it was never repaid. in fact, when Jews returned to their homes after surviving the holocaust they were often murdered by thieves of their houses.
You realize this happened throughout the Muslim world too. An evolutionary psychology professor I follow on Twitter, named Gad Saad, is a Lebanese Jew who said when he was a child the PLO literally just came in one day, kidnapped his father, and threw the entire family out of their house. His father was eventually let go as part of a "hostage" exchange (after being tortured), and they relocated to Canada with nothing.
These are the morally righteous good guys according to Victor.
You realize this happened throughout the Muslim world too. An evolutionary psychology professor I follow on Twitter, named Gad Saad, is a Lebanese Jew who said when he was a child the PLO literally just came in one day, kidnapped his father, and threw the entire family out of their house. His father was eventually let go as part of a "hostage" exchange (after being tortured), and they relocated to Canada with nothing.
These are the moral
bringing up random stuff and then saying victor sounds like he supports them is dumb. attack his actual points or dont say anything at all.
It's not at all clear that they could do this without the US getting upset and cutting off aid or calling for a ceasefire. IDF is pushing the bounds of what they can get away with quite expertly.
Israel's goal is not to eradicate the Palestinian people, even if you really want it to be so you can wag your finger and engage in your usual harumphing and even if Bibi is a total cu...not a sterling example of a head of state. Situation is crappy enough without needing to resort to hyperbole to make it even crappier.
You realize this happened throughout the Muslim world too. An evolutionary psychology professor I follow on Twitter, named Gad Saad, is a Lebanese Jew who said when he was a child the PLO literally just came in one day, kidnapped his father, and threw the entire family out of their house. His father was eventually let go as part of a "hostage" exchange (after being tortured), and they relocated to Canada with nothing.
These are the moral
bringing up random stuff and then saying victor sounds like he supports them is dumb. attack his actual points or dont say anything at all.
right, Ive said many times that in such cases there should be reparations.
rape may have occurred on Oct 7. but the gratuitous and coordinated rape by Hamas that has been reported did not happen and has been thoroughly debunked.
Debunked by whom? Electronic Intifada or a tweet on X or Francesca Albanese or whatever other boolsheet sources you usually cite?
Passive aggression is a sign of emotional immaturity, Mets. If you want to address people’s posts, do it in the first person like an adult.
Vic hasn't addressed the rapes and claims they didn't happen and have been thoroughly debunked. That's not considered acknowledgement, not in my neck of the woods anyway.
Does ending the occupation tomorrow maintain a reasonable degree of safety for Israel? I generally don't know the answer.
Weapons innovation answers this. So the answer to your question is: when? Does Israel wait for their enemies to get the means to reach farther?
Also who cares about Tel Aviv? There's the small matter of all the Israelis who live much closer than that.
Vic hasn't addressed the rapes and claims they didn't happen and have been thoroughly debunked. That's not considered acknowledgement, not in my neck of the woods anyway.
theres no credible evidence. the eyewitnesses are frauds. and even Gettleman himself said that what he gathered could not be considered evidence.
now, I have said that I think there should be an independent investigation. unfortunately, for some reason Israel will not allow one.
if you think the work done by Electronic Intifada and Mondoweiss is boosheet then maybe you could refute some of it. its real hard for me to believe anything from Yossi Landau and Zaka given their track record of absurd lies such as the 40 beheaded baby. and
and the family of the woman from the article has refuted that she was raped or even that they knew when talking to the NYT the article was about her rape. and that family are most certainly not Hamas supporters lol.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...
Completely disregarding any moral issues, Israel is really missing out on an opportunity here imo.
(article really goes out of its way to not suggest who might have fired at food trucks.)
Of course by going out of their way not to point out who all sensible people know fired at the food trucks, it gives cover for propagandists and their followers to pretend it was Israel. And at the end of the day it is the Palestinian people who are going to suffer the most by our unwillingness to acknowledge the realities on the ground with respect to the Palestinians.
Palestinian society was very tribal to begin with, and the crisis this has just accentuated this, where family tribes are fighting over scant resources (with Hamas essentially being the biggest, baddest tribe).
Also, as has been mentioned, for all the rhetoric about "destroying Hamas military capabilities in the North," Israel didn't demilitarize or pacify the area to the point aid trucks could safely move in to distribute aid. Hamas and a lot of other violent actors are still there. And Israel doesn't have the manpower to do so, even if it was inclined. Nor would the world appreciate the amount of violence it would take on Israel's part to actually pacify Gaza to the point aid could be distributed peacefully and fairly.
And the UN doesn't want to go in because frankly the Palestinians are too violent, and no one wants to send aid workers to be killed by the people they are trying to help.
the indiscriminate rocket attacks would obviously start up again. most (not all) of them don't cause anything other than property damage, so there it depends on your definition of reasonable degree of safety
additionally, hamas have promised their people that they will drive the jews into the sea, and obviously its not just blowhard rhetoric, they really mean to do it. they are very weak at the moment and getting weaker by the hour, but the
I would just like to point out that this is not true.
Psychologically traumatizing a nation that is constantly running to bomb shelters messes you up. It messes your children up. It doesn't matter where the rockets land in your town or Kibbutz, you're freaking out the entire time. Over and over. And that trauma is passed down. People inherit the trauma of their parents and their parents. This is for the cities that live under the threat of these rockets. In Tel Aviv it is indeed a more relaxed environment.
50k foreigners citizens of an enemy country? neutral country? allied country?
Assessed probability of your 5k losses? causal inference chain is direct or indirect?
why dont you answer the question first
might means its a possibility, we have no real way predicting the probability of the outcome
Of course by going out of their way not to point out who all sensible people know fired at the food trucks, it gives cover for propagandists and their followers to pretend it was Israel. And at the end of the day it is the Palestinian people who are going to suffer the most by our unwillingness to acknowledge the realities on the ground with respect to the Palestinians.
Palestinian society was very tribal to begin with, and the crisis this
just like the Palestinians shot at this food truck amirite
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/middleeas...
its not the Palestinians that are killing UN workers. that is quite an inversion of truth.
I would just like to point out that this is not true.
Psychologically traumatizing a nation that is constantly running to bomb shelters messes you up. It messes your children up. It doesn't matter where the rockets land in your town or Kibbutz, you're freaking out the entire time. Over and over. And that trauma is passed down. People inherit the trauma of their parents and their parents. This is for the cities that live under the threat of t
this is real rich given what Israel has down to Gaza and Lebanon. sounds like their trauma is not recognized. or it is deserved.
why dont you answer the question first
might means its a possibility, we have no real way predicting the probability of the outcome
You never had to take any decision in a real life setting i guess.
I need data to answer the question, the data i asked for.
you always have a model in your mind about a future event, and you can always assess a probability, however uncertain. There are very few truly "unknown unknowns" with 0 information to work with.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...
Completely disregarding any moral issues, Israel is really missing out on an opportunity here imo.
(article really goes out of its way to not suggest who might have fired at food trucks.)
If Israel was to escort these trucks and a mob of starving people started charging the trucks as the article indicates, Israeli soldiers are going to mow them down. Maybe slaughtering people desperate from hunger is on Bibi's bingo card but don't think Israel wants any part of this at the moment.
I agree with you that they should be helping with aid distribution and I think the US would be doing more if it was their invasion but Israel has shown they're not near the same caliber of army. Probably rank them below Russia at this point.
no trauma here
