Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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I'm pretty close to putting you on ignore
My back windshield was smashed when i woke up. It's a convertible so i need a whole new top
I'm assuming it's because of the i support Israel sign on my lawn. Maybe I'm wrong
American jews are experiencing trauma. And you doubt Israelis are?
What happened to you. I get trying to tow the line and make sure you hold Israel accountable, but you've far surpassed it. I honestly don't get it
If "Sure, some of them are or maybe all are to some degree" isn't good enough for you and you need "YES SIR HOW HIGH", then you should probably not be posting or reading this thread at all.
Sorry some ******* broke your car window.
more truth being spoken by Israeli leaders
And it's "toe the line".
I think his contention was that there was never a planned campaign to mass rape and sexually assault women as was inaccurately reported initially.
no, his contention is that the jewish women who claimed they were raped are lying, and that the jewish eyewitnesses to rape are lying
the above is nowhere near a full catalogue and the posts are spread over months. you would very much like it to be one way, but its the other, your good friend victor is a rape denier, deal with it
Lol @ people pretending Victor isn't a rape denier
Micro, you don't have family in Israel you talk to regularly, I take it? Your replies kind of seem to imply that.
If you did, you'd have a real pulse on the level of trauma over there right now. It's baaaad.
no, his contention is that the jewish women who claimed they were raped are lying, and that the jewish eyewitnesses to rape are lying
the above is nowhere near a full catalogue and the posts are spread over months. you would very much like it to be one way, but its the other, your good friend victor is a rape denier, deal with it
kind of impressed by my careful language actually.
where are all these Jewish women that claimed they were raped? I see witnesses and officials who claim it. but not a single victim has come forward.
like I said, there should be an independent investigation. Israel denied this request.
Micro, you don't have family in Israel you talk to regularly, I take it? Your replies kind of seem to imply that.
If you did, you'd have a real pulse on the level of trauma over there right now. It's baaaad.
Not family, but I talked to an Israeli friend about an hour ago (he's in the US now). I have another close friend whose mom is in Israel.
Not family, but I talked to an Israeli friend about an hour ago. I have another close friend whose mom is in Israel.
And they were generally chill? Because from north to south, I'm not speaking to anyone even a little chill. The most pragmatic and zen Israelis I know are rattled af. All of them in shiva houses, helping where they can, helping the families where the parent(s) are mobilized, figuring out how to make work function with so many people absent. And this is the ones who haven't lost anyone.
The close friend's mom I mentioned lived on one of the kibbutzim right next to Gaza that got overrun and had at least one close friend murdered on 10/7 and probably a lot more than one.
And they were generally chill? Because from north to south, I'm not speaking to anyone even a little chill. The most pragmatic and zen Israelis I know are rattled af. All of them in shiva houses, helping where they can, helping the families where the parent(s) are mobilized, figuring out how to make work function with so many people absent. And this is the ones who haven't lost anyone.
awww. always nice to see a community come together to contribute on some genocide.
And they were generally chill? Because from north to south, I'm not speaking to anyone even a little chill. The most pragmatic and zen Israelis I know are rattled af. All of them in shiva houses, helping where they can, helping the families where the parent(s) are mobilized, figuring out how to make work function with so many people absent. And this is the ones who haven't lost anyone.
The Israeli dude I know who is in the US - but he's born and raised in Israel and his family is there - he's maybe not chill, but not "rattled af". My friend's mom who knows people who were murdered is rattled af and even though she's been part of a peace group that included Israeli Jews and Gazans working together has well, been torn about things.
The Israeli dude I know who is in the US - but he's born and raised in Israel and his family is there - he's maybe not chill, but not "rattled af". My friend's mom who knows people who were murdered is rattled af and even though she's been part of a peace group that included Israeli Jews and Gazans working together has well, been torn about things.
Micro I can only say that I'm glad the few you know are doing well. That's not the general experience I've had (and doesn't tend to be in podcasts and such either).
I used to be pretty close to another Israeli guy (he was a business partner), but he was pretty much ready to bomb Gaza at all times so I'm sure he's 100% down with bombing now.
Micro I can only say that I'm glad the few you know are doing well. That's not the general experience I've had (and doesn't tend to be in podcasts and such either).
I wouldn't say people are doing well just not universally "rattled af", but I don't feel like I deserve the inquisition or being banished by mets for saying:
"Sure, some of them are or maybe all are to some degree."
Seems like that's people being *******s and demanding someone TOE the line.
Israel is 9 million people. Russia is around 150 million. Of course there are many things Russia could do Israel can't. At some point size matters.
The idea that a country of 9 million could actually control and pacify a hostile urban proto-state of 2 million people being constantly supplied small arms by outside actors is laughable. The success Israel has had in the Gaza campaign is actually fairly amazing and a testament to their eff
They have 100's of thousands of soldiers and a reputation of being quite well trained. That myth is gone and we know where their morals stand.
You asked before why people care so much about the Palestinian issue over all the other atrocities in the world. I can only speak for my perception which is being broken. I've always considered Israel as part of "the west" and all those stupid moral boundaries we put on modern warfare you dislike. I'm sorry but countries that make their women dress up like a ghost on Halloween and need a male escort to go outside or start trying to burn down embassies because someone drew a cartoon of their sky daddy I don't hold to the same standard. Their mind is in another universe to me. I never lumped Israel in with those societies.
But looks like Israel will be there soon with them. Watching some settler stuff, one of the fanatic's wives had 10 kids and 100 grandchildren. In a couple of generations they'll be running the place with some sort of Jewish Sharia law.
I've agreed with you before that Israel exists and the Palestinians need to get over it but can Israel be trusted as an honest actor anymore given their history in the west bank?
But Pointless, Auschwitz was worse. What do we do about that? I guess we deny the Gazan struggle? Seem like a sound plan?
Everything is all relative to the worst possible outcome, after all.
Why’re you bringing up a defunct situation when I asked you about the opposite side of the conflict you just brought up?
It’s simple, do you think Palestinians are suffering more than Israelis?
Why’re you bringing up a defunct situation when I asked you about the opposite side of the conflict you just brought up?
It’s simple, do you think Palestinians are suffering more than Israelis?
And Pointless, I'm asking you:
Why do you think the sliding scale matters when discussing someone's pain or trauma?
if you break your leg, is it just as broken if your neighbor also broke his back?
If someone is a rape victim, are they still a rape victim if meanwhile someone else is dead?
Where does your need to measure the two side by side come from? And what is the need for?
Oh one thing we didn't mention (for me it's always obvious but maybe it ain't for everyone?) Is that outside of the actual belligerents, for many people siding with Israel or Palestine is just about how much they love (or hate) capitalism, with the israel-jews-finance connection being the capitalist side, and the palestine-plo-iran-socialism being the anti capitalist side.
So a lot of the moralization is a way to talk capitalist vs socialist morals more than anything else (again, this is for people who don't have family or personal interest in the area)
Victor, I have a secret for you....
Spoiler
Hamas started the war in October. They prepared long and hard, and they pulled it off. Then they ran back into Gaza, with the hostages, knowing exactly what would come. The group who truly contributed to this current iteration of the war knows exactly who they are. And they got exactly their wish
War didn't start Oct 7
Victor, I have a secret for you....
Spoiler
Hamas started the war in October. They prepared long and hard, and they pulled it off. Then they ran back into Gaza, with the hostages, knowing exactly what would come. The group who truly contributed to this current iteration of the war knows exactly who they are. And they got exactly their wish
They pulled it off after Israel ignored all warning signs from the border guards, from Egypt, and funded Hamas for years. So the question of who got who's wish is up in the air.
