Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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With Victor and some of those on the far left, you have to understand they don’t actually hate the Jews. What they hate is America/the West, the world they grew up in.
What they feel toward the Jews is worse: complete indifference. The Jews just happen to be supported by the true target of their hatred: the society they grew up in.
Victor’s posts make a lot more sense when you realize he’s just lashing out against the west and deep down insid
This is correct. The only shoe that seems to fit is that if America chooses a side then he must oppose it. In the case of Ukraine this means dehumanizing Ukrainians so that he can morally justify opposing helping them.
you arent going to get me on the side of war and murder. so ya, ofc I am going to oppose America.
again, you got it backward. the next time America is righteous, then it will be the first time. and I will support them then (lol).
It's been explained to you many times before, but you don't seem to get it: Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine did NOT invade Russia. Supporting Russia in any way, including demonizing Ukrainians and attacking their right to defend themselves, is supporting war and murder.
This is why you must dehumanize Ukrainians, so you can convince yourself that they deserve to be invaded and it's wrong to aid them against invasion.
war is peace
well I support a ceasefire in Ukraine. you have somehow twisted this into supporting war. theres a book about this sort of thing.
This is correct. The only shoe that seems to fit is that if America chooses a side then he must oppose it. In the case of Ukraine this means dehumanizing Ukrainians so that he can morally justify opposing helping them.
Easy way for you to justify the support of innocents being killed
Nope. As has been explained to you many times, the problem isn't that you support a cease fire (pretty much everyone does), the problem is that you support any ceasefire, including the one that Russia demanded and Ukraine realized guaranteed future wars.
"Ceasefire" that guarantees future wars, gives away a large % of Ukrainian land, ensures genocidal actions taken towards Ukrainians in those occupied territories, allows for 0 accountability for war crimes, dismantles Ukraine's military, and gives Russia veto rights on allowing foreign aid to help the mostly dismantled Ukrainian military when Russia invades again === peace in your mind. Most people are able to think far enough ahead to realize that this is not real peace, it's a temporary ceasefire while Russia prepares to invade again.
Gaza cedes North Gaza to Israel, any Palestinians living there should suffer whatever fate Israel deems satisfactory, the remaining Gazas cannot have more than a police force, if Israel invades again then Israel has veto rights on any other country aiding Gaza in any way. Is that peace? It doesn't seem that you support a peace treaty in this thread which is far less crippling, are they also "warmongers"?
when has Gaza ever been allowed more than a collaborationist (capos) police force?
I disagree with your conclusions about Ukraine. I think there will eventually be a peace treaty and that will be that. maybe Im wrong (I am never wrong on this stuff but whatever) but it doesnt mean that I support Russia.
How many rockets do police forces typically fire? How many rpgs do they typically have?
I hope there is a peace treaty and "that will be that" as well, but it clearly wasn't going to be the outcome of the peace treaty I just mentioned which you supported and I did not. You keep misconstruing that to mean that you are pro peace and everyone else is a warmonger. That's the problem.
You seem to have forgotten to address the peace treaty I laid out for Gaza to accept. Are Gazans warmongers for not accepting that, Consistent Vic?
Gaza is not a country. they have been occupied and/or blockaded for over 75 years.
the rockets and in-house weaponry that they ingenuously engineered are part of a resistance that is proper, innovative, and moral.
the police was the only legal force but now they are targeted as much as any other authority in the area.
Only countries can be warmongers for insisting on war?
This is a transparent attempt to avoid answering the question since you know your answer directly shows how inconsistent your views are.
what is the peace treaty that you propose?
So sounds like Israel is setting up safe camps in Central gaza
The optics on that can't be great. But it means they do intend to go on with the assault of rafa at so m e point
Embrace the dark side. Fill every fiber of your soul with lava hot hatred.
Then and only then could you understand Victor’s truth.
Nothing says pleasant humanism like people like you; supporters of the 2003 Iraq War, the ongoing war of genocide in Gaza, and the US imperial project in general!
Look at all these slaves to the dark side: https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peac... (results of a Gallup poll)
In which the USA is seen as the biggest national threat to world peace, by a factor of 3. And that's before Donald Trump; can't imagine it's improved since. If you think that someone who recognizes and is opposed to the blatant and severe violence and depravity of the United States military-industrial complex is someone necessarily on the "dark side", you're a brainwashed cretin and a bootlicker of monsters.
Look at all these slaves to the dark side: https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peac... (results of a Gallup poll)
And this poll doesn't even include much of Africa, the Middle East, and former Soviet states! How severe would the gap be if there existed a really representative poll of the world?!
Hundreds of millions of this planet's humans see the US as it is. Deal with this fact as you will, which I assume is to call them all terrorists or something equally brilliant. General Grizy, watch your words, or you might find yourself getting choked out by your superior, Darth Vader.
Nothing says pleasant humanism like people like you; supporters of the 2003 Iraq War, the ongoing war of genocide in Gaza, and the US imperial project in general!
Look at all these slaves to the dark side: https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peac... (results of a Gallup poll)
In which the USA is seen as the biggest national threat to world peace, by a factor of 3. And that's before Donald Trump; can't imagine it's improved since. If you th
LOL. Like I have said before, when Pax Americana eventually falls, and it will sooner or later, the world is going to get a lot worse and lot more violent and desparate very quickly.
And in the most sucky places like Africa, Yemen and Gaza, which rely completely on handouts from the US to even survive at all, people will starve by the hundreds of millions.
LOL. Like I have said before, when Pax Americana eventually falls, and it will sooner or later, the world is going to get a lot worse and lot more violent and desparate very quickly.
The world IS likely to get worse, more violent, and desperate, but as a result of increasing resource scarcity, climate change, weapons proliferation and power, etc., and it quite possibly will happen around the same time as the American empire falling. I'm sure many people will incorrectly draw a causal link from the latter to the former. Good news for you!
And in the most sucky places like Africa, Yemen and Gaza, which rely completely on handouts from the US to even survive at all, people will starve by the hundreds of millions.
Many/most of these places are impoverished and hollowed out AS A RESULT of colonization and exploitation by the US and other powers. Don't get me wrong, there are other causes involved which have nothing to do with America (the world's ills are far less simple to understand than you black/white clash of civilization types like to believe), but the claim that the continued survival of these nations is due to the magnanimousness of the United States is a sick joke.
Gaza is not a country. they have been occupied and/or blockaded for over 75 years.
the rockets and in-house weaponry that they ingenuously engineered are part of a resistance that is proper, innovative, and moral.
the police was the only legal force but now they are targeted as much as any other authority in the area.
Ukraine was occupied and controlled by Russia for about 70 years, and you have seem to have no problem with that happening again.
Did I mention Victor doesn’t give a crap about the Palestinians either? That’s why he has no problem with infantilizing and taking agency away from them.
He doesn’t care about their long term well being either.
He just wants them to keep lashing out at the west on his behalf.
bruv you are advocating for a decades long occupation. who is the one the one that denies their agency?
maybe?
