Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Oh then where is the tweet Victor posted from?
no but for real, it may or may not be a statement from the Al Aqsa brigade who may or may not be affiliated with Fatah in some way to some extent.
I shouldnt have posted it but it was reposted by accounts that I trust. I dont trust Sulaiman and dont follow him and now remember he has posted questionable content.
BREAKING: FATAH’S MILITARY WING OFFICIAL STATEMENT
Whose statement is he actually quoting?
edit: lol got me
The militias are decentralized and spread out to the point talking about where "headquarters" or "bases" are is probably not super relevant or productive.
This talk about armed militias brings up an important part of the dynamic that pretty much ensures failure of any peace movement. Because Palestinian society (and more generally Islamic society) prefers Iranian funded violent Jihad over peaceful state building, the armed militias will always have popularly supported veto power to block any peace movement. Some hypothetical where Hamas abdicates wouldn't materially change this dynamic.
The more generally Islamic society parenthetical is why people call you racist
The main problem as I see it is you can ask any Muslim, or far leftist like Bill Haywood or Victor, their thoughts on the Israeli-Palestinian situation and you will get the expected results. But you ask them the same thing about what is going on in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Pakistan, etc. etc. etc. and they couldn't care less about the people being oppressed.
So what we have is people who actually have no first principles against human oppression, and many actually support it as long as they view themselves as being in the same tribe as the oppressors. They are just Muslim supremacists and/or anti Western civilization. So given this, why should I care what a Muslim supremacist with no first principles beyond tribalism has to say?
If it is going to just be tribalism anyways, and I think western liberal society is superior to fundamental Islamic society of far left anti-Capitalism, why shouldn't I support my own tribe?
Why in the world would I support a side that thinks Sharia is a good foundation to orient a society or one which thinks we need to destroy Western Civilization in some vain hope we will build something better?
massacring people in Al Shifa.
I noticed Victor made a post about Israel attacking the Al-Shifa hospital, and looked up what he was talking about; and it appears Hamas is using the hospital as a base and IDF got a tip and went in after them, and as I type they are literally having gun battles in the compound.
I guess Victor didn't like the reality that Hamas was actually using the hospital as a base and attacked the IDF soldiers who went in to get them, so he deleted his post.
Hamas base at Al Shifa? where have we heard that before? oh well, Im sure this time they arent lying.
I did not delete my post. I absolutely stand by it.
Not really sure why the Israeli stance is inappropriate
imagine going to the hospital due to an ear infection or whatever and being presented with the sight of agents of your ruling government running through the corridors with rpgs. what a bunch of jerkoffs
So the estimates are 40% of Hamas left in Rafah. Sounds like it's going to take a minimum of 5 weeks but as many as 8 to evacuate the civilians (some of which will be Hamas posing as civilians) before they go in to get those last Hamas battalions and the smuggling infrastructure. The analogy being used on getting those last Hamas battalions is akin to not leaving Afghanistan too early and having the Taliban take over, that's sort of the standing explanation right now I'm getting. You can't make everything you've sacrificed up to this point be for nothing (is their view). It's a reality Biden's cabinet is well aware of, despite their public facing comments. It's also known that right now Hamas would consider the current outcome a "win", which is also something it seems the war cabinet can't tolerate (as it green lights more Oct 7ths).
Israel views it as they owe future stability to the whole region (Palestinians included), in that success will mean less radicalization far beyond just Israel (which is definitely counter to what we've discussed in here certainly). This is also as sharp and trained as their army has been. With every passing month their troops are more efficient, and the loss of IDF soldiers has very much dropped on a per operation basis as they get more experienced. They also feel with what they've learned, that they know how to greatly reduce civilian losses compared to how this started (which I know, Vic will think is preposterous).
This is going to take the operation pretty close to the democratic convention.
And btw I'm not giving any opinions in this, I've yet to really form an opinion via the last phase and day after. I suppose I'd mostly be curious what goals they have for the last 40%, and what they think they need to reduce it to to render Hamas operationally ineffective. I'd also be curious to see who will administer aid, and how long the counterinsurgency phase lasts after that. If we just get to Afghanistan in 10 years anyway, yeah I dunno. So they better have a pretty good plan, or it will have indeed been a horrific miscalculation.
The Al-Shifa hospital thing actually illustrates why there should be no expectation for peace, regardless of what happens to Hamas, as long as the current incentive structure operates. Militants can set up shop anywhere in Gaza and they will be supported by the people. Israel can come in and force militants out, but the second Israel leaves, they will be welcomed back with open arms.
Palestinian society is all in on armed Jihad. They are perfectly fine with the UN supporting them to be permanent refugees generationally, with no interest in forming a functional society, and allowing foreign funded guerrilla militias to operate with carte blanche.
