Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Oh sure, the only two countries giving any food to them is the ones who are deliberately starving them. What kind of f'ed up logic is that??
None of the other 200 or so countries in the world, including quite a few who say they are the allies of Palestinians, are providing any food to them. I would say it is those countries who are deliberately starving the population.
Israel already had the land, for a long time. They gave it back and lef
?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/egy...
The Egyptian army said on Saturday it airdropped a new batch of aid supplies to the Gaza Strip, where Israeli attacks since last October have killed more than 30,000 people and created conditions of a famine.
“The General Command of the Armed Forces issued orders to prepare military transport planes loaded with tons of food supplies and urgent humanitarian needs to alleviate the suffering experienced by the residents of the Gaza Strip,” spokesman Col. Gharib Abdel Hafez said in a statement.
“Airdrops of aid were carried out in various areas in the northern Gaza Strip,” he added.
Many countries have been airdropping aid including medicines, fuel and food to Gaza.
Before the conflict that started after the Oct. 7 Hamas offensive, Gaza relied on 500 supply trucks daily, according to the UN Palestinian refugee agency. That number has decreased over the past many weeks, with the delivery of food aid to the north said to be almost completely stopped.
Arafat had said that the womb of the Palestinian woman was a "biological weapon," which he could use to create Palestine state by crowding people into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.
So the cause is more important than quality of life
the resistance and the people of Palestine are never going to acquiesce to a bunch of Fatah capos ruling over them.
its really disgusting the things that you support.
I'm guessing Amnesty International holds some weight in this thread.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2...
Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organization within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces. Not a single person has been held accountable for the crimes committed by Hamas forces against Palestinians during the 2014 conflict, indicating that these crimes were either ordered or condoned by the authorities.
Instead of upholding justice, the Hamas authorities and leadership have continuously encouraged and facilitated these appalling crimes against powerless individuals. Their failure to even condemn the unlawful killings, abduction and torture of perceived suspects leaves them effectively with blood on their hands,” said Philip Luther.
btw for people with long enough memories, those Fatah members were tortured inside a hospital. Yes THAT hospital.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne...
I'm assuming Human Rights Watch is also maybe decently credible
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/iopt070...
That read is a tough one, I won't bother with quotes. Hamas ADMITTED to it, that part I will quote
Hamas did not deny that abuses took place in the first months of its rule. Interior Ministry spokesman Ihab al-Ghusain told Human Rights Watch:
There were many mistakes by the Executive Force after June because they were not meant to be more than an auxiliary force. There were some attacks on journalists and illegal detentions… We are very annoyed and discontent with these problems. The higher levels of the administration including the prime minister were very upset. We’ve dealt with many cases and now we can notice that the mistakes have decreased or stopped. If they continue, then the responsible party will be brought to account.122
And ever since, there have not been free or fair elections in there. Oh there's gangsters in Gaza alright Vic. But somehow you seem to have no idea who they are.
Duh. Of course they were negligent in having kids. If you live in a prison camp and your leaders constantly attack their only source of food, do you think it's a good idea to have children?
Lol, morality is binary. The only two countries in the world providing any food to Gaza are the US and Israel. So you decide it's the fault of the US and Israel that the Gazans are starving? What about every other country in the world who is doing th
Two responses, yet you still haven’t listed places taking refugees in that provide housing and food for them.
In your magic land , they cross the border and boom, someone takes care of them! But where is that in reality? Please name a couple specific places, since you said there were lots of them
In its reply published on Friday, Fatah slammed Hamas, demanding: “Did Hamas consult the Palestinian leadership or any Palestinian national party when it made its decision to carry out the ‘adventure’ of last October 7, which led to a catastrophe more horrific and crueler than the Nakba of 1948?
“And did Hamas consult the Palestinian leadership that is now negotiating with Israel and offering it concessions after concessions, which have no goal other than securing guarantees of personal security for its leadership to receive, and to try to reach an agreement with [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu to maintain its divisive role in Gaza and the Palestinian arena?” it asked.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/a...
The Fatah statement also made a point to refer to the lavish lifestyles led by Hamas leadership in Qatar, noting that “it seems that the comfortable life that this leadership lives in seven-star hotels has blinded it from what is right.”
Hamas getting called out by their own is powerful powerful stuff
I'm guessing Amnesty International holds some weight in this thread.
Fatah tried to start a war to overturn a free and fair election with the backing of Israel.
again, what do you think the Jews did to the Capos in 1945?
I deleted a post about Cyprus for bigoted statements about muslims as an entire group. Those need to stop. Also, the Cypress 1974 invasion is off topic in this thread.
Ok. The main takeaway is if one actually had some sort of first principle concern for "genocide," there is A LOT going on in the world presently. And most of the people most animated by the Palestinian cause are agnostic (and in many cases supportive) of most of the rest of the "genocide" going on. So given this lack of first principles, I am not sure how persuaded I should be by their concern and arguments.
They are extremely negligent for purposely having way more kids than they can afford to help the Palestinian cause. They believe that they are still doing Arafat's work knowing that their 8 kids will live in poverty
Mets, how much autonomy do you think your typical Palestinian woman has when it comes to family planning?
Fatah tried to start a war to overturn a free and fair election with the backing of Israel.
again, what do you think the Jews did to the Capos in 1945?
In this analogy Victor, the Nazis are Hamas. The ones looking to kill as many Jews as conceivable.
Like I said, that Palestinians are starting to call out Hamas this publically is a massive tidal change. It's going to be a big year to watch how public support moves.
Ok. The main takeaway is if one actually had some sort of first principle concern for "genocide," there is A LOT going on in the world presently. And most of the people most animated by the Palestinian cause are agnostic (and in many cases supportive) of most of the rest of the "genocide" going on. So given this lack of first principles, I am not sure how persuaded I should be by their concern and arguments.
I saw that point. But the wording used, imo, overreached that by a lot.
In this analogy Victor, the Nazis are Hamas. The ones looking to kill as many Jews as conceivable.
Like I said, that Palestinians are starting to call out Hamas this publically is a massive tidal change. It's going to be a big year to watch how public support moves.
Fatah is calling out Hamas. not the Palestinians.
Fatah is the collaborationist arm of the genocidal Israeli regime. they have no legitimacy at this point. and yes in the analogy they are the Capos.
Fatah is calling out Hamas. not the Palestinians.
Fatah is the collaborationist arm of the genocidal Israeli regime. they have no legitimacy at this point. and yes in the analogy they are the Capos.
Hamas has 74 seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council. Fatah has 45. You're going to see that shift Victor, which speaks to your "legitimacy" claim. 45 seats is both legitimate and far reaching. Like in any country or territory, the ruling party that brings total ruin is often tossed.
I think Fatah is going to leapfrog them.
All the ways it makes sense for it to be Fatah, who by the way are internationally recognized socialists (maybe the only socialists Vic dislikes?):
Ideologies:
Fatah – Secular
Hamas – Islamist
Strategies:
Fatah – Negotiations
Hamas – Armed resistance
Objectives:
Hamas – won't recognize Israel
Fatah – Recognizes Israel, wants a state on 1967 borders
When you look at that, you can clearly see who has the future in this, and who doesn't
Mets, how much autonomy do you think your typical Palestinian woman has when it comes to family planning?
The average gaza household has 6.9 people
West Bank 6.1
Israel 3.2
Egypt 3.9
Jordan 4.8
You can talk about religion and birth control but if you don't think there is a concerted effort in gaza to have kids just to outnumber the Jews then there's nothing else i can tell you
They are extremely negligent for purposely having way more kids than they can afford to help the Palestinian cause. They believe that they are still doing Arafat's work knowing that their 8 kids will live in poverty
Well, given the stated goal is ethnic replacement through out-reproduction, and they have been able to work towards this goal while getting the rest of the world to pay for it, it is hard to argue they have been negligent. If anything, it seems to be working fairly well.
I certainly wouldn't underestimate the Palestinians. Looking at how the rest of the Middle East and Turkey has recently transformed from one of the most diverse places in the world into mostly religious ethnostates, I would not discount the Palestinians capability to some day achieve their own objectives in this regard.
The average gaza household has 6.9 people
West Bank 6.1
Israel 3.2
Egypt 3.9
Jordan 4.8
You can talk about religion and birth control but if you don't think there is a concerted effort in gaza to have kids just to outnumber the Jews then there's nothing else i can tell you
Fertility right now is very close for palestinians and israeli (like 3.3 vs 3), so if there was the kind of concerted effort you are talking about, it was mostly in the past.
The average gaza household has 6.9 people
West Bank 6.1
Israel 3.2
Egypt 3.9
Jordan 4.8
You can talk about religion and birth control but if you don't think there is a concerted effort in gaza to have kids just to outnumber the Jews then there's nothing else i can tell you
Mets, I asked you how much reproductive autonomy you think Palestinian women have, I didn't ask you to give me the Black Mirror version of Great Replacement Theory.
The answer of course is very little, and none of them knew months in advance that the IDF was going to force them into camps. But hey, **** 'em, they were irresponsible and deserve to watch their children starve to death.
If someone posted about Kiryas Joel, for example, with the same tone and opinions I bet Mets would be the first one to trot out the big A word
Hasidic communities in the Us have some of the highest birth rates and poverty rates in the country.
A cool thing about not being an enthonationalist is that I don't have to keep an Excel spreadsheet covering the birthrates of various races.
Mets, I asked you how much reproductive autonomy you think Palestinian women have, I didn't ask you to give me the Black Mirror version of Great Replacement Theory.
The answer of course is very little, and none of them knew months in advance that the IDF was going to force them into camps. But hey, **** 'em, they were irresponsible and deserve to watch their children starve to death.
Pre October 7th I'm pretty sure there was plenty of birth control available
I'm not talking about now
The population on gaza is the most dense in the world
That isn't an accident
