Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Hamas proved on Oct 7 that there is an existential threat against Israel, even if Hamas alone is not an existential threat to Israel.
Israel being able to replace arms sales does not mean that losing USA is not a big deal, to both Israel and Gaza, both long term and short term.
Israel's lack of restraint in this conflict has resulted in an awful state of affairs. Things have gotten so bad that Biden has gone for the "all in" approach: saying he will withdraw support. There is a misunderstanding ITT and elsewhere that this means that Israel will not be able to conduct an offensive against Rafah. They absolute will still be able to, but they will do it with (even) less precision, (even) less restraint, and at a far higher risk of causing a larger conflict.
Ofc they will still be able to lmao they have money. They might even hire the Russians
And if they hadn't money? Thx for stopping by, broke-brain
Brilliant
Let's apply that logic to the entire world
Ofc they will still be able to lmao they have money. They might even hire the Russians
I believe you indicated you believed the opposite of this earlier, saying that without USA aid then Israel would start conserving and the conflict would end sooner than if USA continued to give aid.
I think it will be a huge deal if Israel loses USA support. A massive deal. The price will be among other things a large increase in existential risk. You seem to dismiss it as no biggee which I did find bizarre
The credibility argument makes little sense to me. This is a response to a terrorist attack not an invasion or existential threat.
We agree on that (apart from the blame bit). This whole segment was about world 'good will' being lost
You"re completely misunderstanding my point.
My point was Israel can credibly deter the US from withdrawing support, not that Israel will not see an increase in existential threat.
In fact, one of my implied points is that the increase in existential threat, and the lack of restraint imposed by its new allies, is going to increase the probability Israel will be forced to take the gloves off.
In other words, what I am saying is withdrawing support will likely lead to the opposite of desired effect even if the threat is carried out. That it would lead to opposite of desired effect and collateral negative consequences for everyone involved is why such a threat is not credible to begin with, even if doing such a thing (something that feels morally obvious/justified but practically dumb) is totally on brand for Biden.
Oh ok so you're only disagreement about my point about the risk is that Biden, who you say is dumb enough to threaten to withdraw support wont withdraw support because the risk is so vast it would be a dumb thing to do.
You could be right but there's a risk you're not - maybe it isn't so dumb or maybe he is dumb enough to do it anyway. The point also extended beyond biden and trump into the future. A sizable shift in sentiment in the usa against israel is an increase in Israels existential risk. Even if you're correct that it would be dumb, the usa is more than capable of electing someone who does dumb things.
I believe you indicated you believed the opposite of this earlier, saying that without USA aid then Israel would start conserving and the conflict would end sooner than if USA continued to give aid.
Yes. What I believe will happen and what can happen are two different things.
Do you need a further explanation?
Ofc they will still be able to lmao they have money. They might even hire the Russians
I believe you indicated you believed the opposite of this earlier, saying that without USA aid then Israel would start conserving and the conflict would end sooner than if USA continued to give aid.
Yes. What I believe will happen and what can happen are two different things.
Do you need a further explanation?
Sorry didn’t mean to be rude like that
Oh ok so you're only disagreement about my point about the risk is that Biden, who you say is dumb enough to threaten to withdraw support wont withdraw support because the risk is so vast it would be a dumb thing to do.
You could be right but there's a risk you're not - maybe it isn't so dumb or maybe he is dumb enough to do it anyway. The point also extended beyond biden and trump into the future. A sizable shift in sentiment in the usa a
He's dumb enough to do it but Europe can serve as a failsafe, at least in the short and medium term.
I don't think we really disagree.
Again, I think it's so incredibly stupid for Bibi and his ultra right wing cronies to act as egregiously as they have this year. The cruelty and suffering they are inflicting on Gazan cilivians are just totally unnecessary and counterproductive.
new provisional measures just dropped. ICJ told Israel to stop military operations. Im sure they will get right on that.
new provisional measures just dropped. ICJ told Israel to stop military operations. Im sure they will get right on that.
They won't, of course, but loss of prestige and diplomatic support are serious even though Israel can militarily carry on alone. They've even managed to annoy the Irish, who are minded to intervene against them at the ICJ, which is fairly unusual.
They won't, of course, but loss of prestige and diplomatic support are serious even though Israel can militarily carry on alone. They've even managed to annoy the Irish, who are minded to intervene against them at the ICJ, which is fairly unusual.
Don't the Irish have some actual leftists in government or in the European parliament?
76 years and antisemites still say they shouldn't exist
Thanks for saying the quiet part out loud
should a state that explicitly proclaims that it is white supremacist exist? should Nazi Germany been allowed to exist? or Imperial Japan? should a Palestinian state be allowed to exist?
Israel is a criminal enterprise engaged currently gleefully doing genocide.
they should be immediately disbanded and the population reeducated similarly to how the Nazi's were treated in East Germany. (not West Germany ofc where they just remained in power and called themselves something different.)
Don't the Irish have some actual leftists in government or in the European parliament?
Depends what you mean by leftists. Irish politicians are generally to the left of the US norm, same as most Europeans, but Ireland doesn't have a standard left-right split, the two main parties Fine Gail and Fianna Fail being descended from respectively the Pro-Treaty and Anti-Treaty sides in the Civil War of 1922, with no very marked present-day policy differences, both being pretty conservative, while Sinn Fein in its present form descends from the Provisional IRA of the 1970s and probably thinks it's left but isn't very, so it just goes on about public housing. There are some Greens and Labour knocking about. The health system still involves fees for most people, and taxpayer-wary politicians don't appear to want to rock that boat.
Documentary on Oct. 7 debunks the most fantastical reports of atrocities. For some reason the systematic murder of civilians was not enough, the hasbara had to say people were put in ovens.
Well, they are anyway, and can claim legitimacy from the UN Partition Plan of 1947, though of course this doesn't apply to their rule of the Occupied Territories.
they want to pick and choose which UN resolutions they follow. thats bc they are a criminal supremacist society reveling in genocide.
I won't even quote because that source is 100% trash tier and content of the article is 90+% garbage.
It's not even internally consistent in messaging.
And that's because they cherry picked information from Al Jazeera (which in turn did its own cherry picking to start with)
