Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
its funny we are having this conversation as I just came across this bit
he talks about the dual role of the kibbutzes at around the 14 min mark and it lasts for like 5 mins
"harm caused to protected civilians or civilian property must be proportional" Are you really going to argue that because they have communications they are valid targets and Hamas met this criteria even though they massacred the civilians there?
The fact that you're even quoting the Geneva Convention is ridiculous because it clearly states the entire operation is illegal as it didn't have a clear military purpose. There is no greater milita
you are really misinformed about what happened on Oct 7.
They even brag ITT about how good their home made rockets are at killing Israeli civilians.
Perhaps, but I don't think anyone in Israel has been killed by a rocket from Gaza since 10/7. The rockets hardly kill anyone. From 2004 to 2014 they killed 48 people and that was almost 9000 rockets.
This is partly because of the Iron Dome and partly because of shelters in Israel, but it's largely because the payloads of these rockets are so small. And because of this it also cannot be true that Hamas rockets that failed to reach Israel have killed a lot of people in Gaza.
its funny we are having this conversation as I just came across this bit
he talks about the dual role of the kibbutzes at around the 14 min mark and it lasts for like 5 mins
There's certainly some truth to it, but "the land that Israelis conquered" largely happened before there were Israelis. He mentioned two kibbutzim. One was founded before Israel existed and the other in 1951 when the Gaza strip was Egyptian. And both of them are in the Israel side of the pre-1948 war UN partition.
“Some civilian infrastructure and telecommunications used by the military for communicating and transporting assets are all considered legitimate military targets.”
Did you miss that part
"This is a colonial outpost border town."
"That's why there's often a military base and an accompanying kibbutz."
"There's both a military base and a kibbutz."
So even these guys distinguish between them.
Also wow this guy chokes up bad when he has to justify the attack on the music festival. Even he's not buying his own BS.
PW: reread the post
"This is a colonial outpost border town."
"That's why there's often a military base and an accompanying kibbutz."
"There's both a military base and a kibbutz."
So even these guys distinguish between them.
Also wow this guy chokes up bad when he has to justify the attack on the music festival. Even he's not buying his own BS.
PW: reread the post
he doesnt try to justify it and in fact criticizes the unnecessary murder.
It’s a legitimate military target. Call it whatever you want
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitima...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hamas should find better western allies lol, they weren't at war you can't use the Geneva convention (which btw you misapply here). There was no ongoing war when Hamas attacked on 10 7, no attack at all of any kind against anyone including Israeli military had any justification.
Hamas attack was an act of war which justifies Israel doing what it is doing in retaliation, and bombing even hospitals if Hamas uses them as hiding places and so on.
While Hamas wasn't justified at all even in attacking a military installation on 10 7.
I hope they sue you in sharia court for reputational damage
Wouldn’t it be nice if Israel just killed the leaders of Hamas and then immediately began the peace process like the US did in Iraq?
Because that worked so well?
Anyway Hamas leaders are partying in Qatar with some of the money that should be spent on food and medicine for the Palestinians so
He does try to justify it, he just doesn't do it very convincingly. Probably because it's total bs and he's so nervous saying it.
"If you want to attack the military base you have to drive on the same road and take control of the junction on the highway that goes to the kibbutz where civilians live. That's the reason Hamas fighters ended up at the Nova music festival, because that was like 3km down the road from the Kibbutz and military base and ummm, I mean the Hamas fighters stumbled on that music festival, they didn't know about it in advance *nervous eye ticks and extremely nervous swallow*. But again, from the Israeli narrative the military aspect is just totally erased, and Hamas just deliberately went into civilian areas to try to murder women and children. And that's just totally not what happened at all."
It is exactly what happened. Maybe he later goes on to criticize the unnecessary murder (which is all of the murder), but he's absolutely justifying things here. The music festival held no military value; Hamas went there to try to murder civilians. He says the junctions are important, which might be true, but in no way explains why that means they need to murder the civilians nearby, whether at the kibbutz or the festival.
he starts talking about it more at the 39 minute mark. I havent listened yet.
*nervous eye ticks and extremely nervous swallow*
lol we got a facial expression expert here.
regardless, even Israeli sources say they had no idea a music festival was going on. they didnt plan on attacking the music festival. like, we have been over this dozens of times now.
Which I have never denied, so you went it over it dozens of times needlessly.
Obviously the part I'm suggesting he's nervous about saying is the part that follows, which he nervously swallows and has a tic before saying (and then seems pretty relieved to be finished saying too): Hamas did not go to the music festival to murder civilians, the Israeli narrative erased the military aspect of the music festival.
Obviously I'm having some fun with the facial stuff.
he mentions that bodies are burned together. we know this is true bc Israel reduced their count of dead bc they found that approx 200 bodies were actually Hamas fighters mixed in with their own dead. thats how we know that Israel killed a lot of their own.
and then ruh ro, he screws up and says "most" whereas usually they are very careful to say "many" were killed by Israel.
credibility shot. the nits will dismiss everything he says now. gg gjge.
So which side is worse. Simple question
Which I have never denied, so you went it over it dozens of times needlessly.
Obviously the part I'm suggesting he's nervous about saying is the part that follows, which he nervously swallows and has a tic before saying (and then seems pretty relieved to be finished saying too): Hamas did not go to the music festival to murder civilians, the Israeli narrative erased the military aspect of the music festival.
Obviously I'm having some fun with
ya hes so happy for it to be over that he returns to the topic on his own volition at the 39:40 mark.
Credibility was shot when he titled this "The Mass Hannibal Event of October 7th", and again when he kept referring to the concentration camps, and again when he said that the music festival was a military target. I'm sure there's a lot more, I watched maybe 5 minutes total.
"Hamas was in the process of attacking the military base and they came across this party, and according to the Israeli narrative, the Hamas guys, unopposed, as the party was happening, just started massacring people and supposedly there was 364 people killed." That's what happened... The Israeli narrative is what happened.
I have never heard anyone say that Hamas was massacring people for hours at the music festival...
If he actually says that most of the people killed were killed by IDF then wow...
Credibility was shot when he titled this "The Mass Hannibal Event of October 7th", and again when he kept referring to the concentration camps, and again when he said that the music festival was a military target. I'm sure there's a lot more, I watched maybe 5 minutes total.
you know where the "Mass Hannibal" description came from? it wasnt the author lol.
an Israeli Air Force colonel called it that.
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/13145
you are misinformed like usual
"Hamas was in the process of attacking the military base and they came across this party, and according to the Israeli narrative, the Hamas guys, unopposed, as the party was happening, just started massacring people and supposedly there was 364 people killed." That's what happened... The Israeli narrative is what happened.
I have never heard anyone say that Hamas was massacring people for hours at the music festival...
If he actually says tha
its like parody with you. if one less than "most" were in fact killed by the IDF you would declare victory and never shut up about it.
the fact is, lots and lots were killed by the IDF and we will never know how many.
another interesting tidbit from the pilot.
they couldnt communicate bc it was attack on military targets and the Resistance took out the brigade right away.
Our enemy side by definition, there is never anything worse someone can do than be our enemy.
We should always support our ally no matter what it does until and unless that materially damages us and viceversa with out enemies.
What's moral is what benefits us and our allies, and what damages our enemies.
