Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Israel will attack Lebanon yes, using the attacks from Lebanon that were parts of the coordinated effort with Iran.
I fear Israel is a bit stretched militarily though to both conduct a proper war in Lebanon and eradicate Hamas from Rafah.
So maybe this would mean they will delay entering Rafah yet another time?
They were waiting on Rafah anyway. So this won't interfere. Rafah may even be post US election.
Bibi going to war with Iran itself is political suicide.
Iran can and will do damage to Israeli proper.
For Israel as a nation, such a war would be absolutely disastrous as well.
Jordanians and Saudis will also be far less interested in helping Israel in an offensive operation than in a defensive one.
Biden already said the US will not participate in an offensive operation against Iran (his awful foreign policy instincts are in play again)
Israe
Nuclear Iran is the #1 most disastrous outcome for Israel. Fighting it out in the open with Iran today is a fraction of the issue to them.
Bibi politically is already finished. Polls show that, he's done. What he might be able to do is change his place in the history books though if his war cabinet is the one that helps strike the Iranian nuclear program AND rids the North of Hamas. He's sort of freerolling here honestly. Because like I said, these fights are already coming, as sure as Russia was invading Ukraine. Btw he also probably stretches his time in power overseeing these multi-fronts, which is a very Bibi calculation to make.
yup, iran confirmed yesterday what has long been suspected - that they have no intention of risking it all in pursuit of the destruction of israel, and that they are fearful of the united states
victor's stated wish of the disbanding of israel and the 'reeducation' of the jews is, in this very moment that you are reading this post, further away that at any other point in the last 76 years
its a wonderful day 😀
Wonderful day for white supremacists that love genocide. I agree.
Cuz you despise the west in general and especially the State of Israel, anti Semite that you are.
I just hope Israel doesn't go all Hitler on the rest of the ME.
Case in point. Never let it be said you don't love comparing Jews to Hitler of all people.
[quote]Something you guys are certainly engorged thinking about.
I'm always engorged. You only live once. 
Myrna, if "hit on your own soil" was reason enough to attack someone, Southern Lebanon and Gaza would have been flattened a while back. This is the thing people don't realize about Israel because they've never lived there. You get 12-14 seconds to run to your bomb shelter in Israel, and you do it many times per week with your toddler depending on your address. Imagine the USA tolerating that with kids in say Texas? Just never happen. They'd
if Israel stopped doing genocide on the Gazans then there would be no fight. but your bloodlust knows no bounds.
1. Even if true he’d deny it.
2. He’s more likely to just not give a **** about what the Iranians do. His M.O. is hatred toward those in power and not give a **** about anyone else. Iran, in his conception of the world, is not in power, and is therefore irrelevant and only a passive participant with no agency.
I dont think Iran attacking Israel is going to do anything to stop the ongoing genocide in Gaza. in fact it will likely just accelerate it. so as I said many times, I hoped there was no escalation.
It was pretty clear that Iran would retaliate. I think it's pretty clear who was hoping that would result in a lot of dead [strike]Jews[/strike] [strike]Zionists[/strike] [strike]Israelis[/strike] [strike]nazis[/strike] white supremacists that love genocide, when Iran inevitably took the bait... even if they wish Iran didn't take the bait to begin with.
The Middle East would definitely be better off if Iran did not have a nuclear weapon. Israel trying to strike their nuclear program, and then defend against what would likely be a far larger retaliation from Iran, Houthis, and Hezbollah is an extremely dangerous gamble.
Iran believes they are in the better position long term and are content with essentially deloping. USA does not want Israel to keep escalating this. If Israel chooses to then it will likely begin to cost a lot in lives, money, and whatever diplomatic standing they still have. Israel is way better off continuing diplomatic relations in the Middle East and the West; continually escalating the violence will only hurt that cause.
liars lie. keep lying and keep defending genocide.
They were waiting on Rafah anyway. So this won't interfere. Rafah may even be post US election.
Nuclear Iran is the #1 most disastrous outcome for Israel. Fighting it out in the open with Iran today is a fraction of the issue to them.
Bibi politically is already finished. Polls show that, he's done. What he might be able to do is change his place in the history books though if his war cabinet is the one that helps strike the Iranian nuclear p
Let me put it this way.
Nobody can physically stop Iran from developing a nuke without razing the country to the ground.
Nobody is up for that, Israelis included.
The only genocide going on is the genocide the fake media is telling you about. If the enemy didn't use the civilians as human shields there would be much less casualties.
the fake media is running cover for a genocide. they arent saying **** about it.
human shields is the dumbest argument of the thread. if anything they should be called human magnets for bombs bc Israel absolutely loves murdering children. if I was a Hamas member the last thing I would do is remain around civilians.
there is no bottom to liberals like yourself and you will always just find ways to revel in the murder of others.
They aren't targeting civilians. They are targeting Hamas. You can blame Hamas for the number of dead.
Even if this is still true now, it's pretty clear Bibi is utterly disinterested in ameliorating the suffering of Gazan civilians.
There are also serious questions about Israeli efforts/checks to make sure they are actually going after military targets.
if Israel stopped doing genocide on the Gazans then there would be no fight. but your bloodlust knows no bounds.
.
I believe that you believe this to be true. But it's simply not.
For a long time, SOME Muslims have been unable to get over Israel existing as a safe place for Jews. Many have gotten over it (and the Saudis are in the middle of this change), but some cannot and will not get over it. Israel has been contending with that "some" for a while now. And this is more of that.
I absolutely accept that some people cannot see this, and will never see it.
Let me put it this way.
Nobody can physically stop Iran from developing a nuke without razing the country to the ground.
Nobody is up for that, Israelis included.
All they want is time.
Time moves nations to better tech. Tech wins wars.
If you look at WW2, time and innovation was one of the key deciding factors. A few years in this direction or that, and it's the other nation getting nukes first.
Israel needs more time. With more time it's maybe them who end up with bunker busting tech we've never seen before.
I believe that you believe this to be true. But it's simply not.
For a long time, SOME Muslims have been unable to get over Israel existing as a safe place for Jews. Many have gotten over it (and the Saudis are in the middle of this change), but some cannot and will not get over it. Israel has been contending with that "some" for a while now. And this is more of that.
I absolutely accept that some people cannot see this, and will never see it
When you say "Israel existing" what you actually mean is allowing Israel to do genocide on the oppressed indigenous Palestinians in the name of lebensraum.
When you say "safe space for the Jews" it's a blatantly obvious falsehood bc Israel is the most dangerous place for Jews at the moment.
All they want is time.
Time moves nations to better tech. Tech wins wars.
If you look at WW2, time and innovation was one of the key deciding factors. A few years in this direction or that, and it's the other nation getting nukes first.
Israel needs more time. With more time it's maybe them who end up with bunker busting tech we've never seen before.
Bombing Iran and convincing them nothing will deter Israel except a nuke is pretty much the surest way to get them to restart the program.
There is no new tech to develop. With Iran it is, has been for decades, and always will be, not giving them a reason to think they absolutely need a nuke.
Bombing Iran and convincing them nothing will deter Israel except a nuke is pretty much the surest way to get them to restart the program.
There is no new tech to develop. With Iran it is, has been for decades, and always will be, not giving them a reason to think they absolutely need a nuke.
You're saying it's the chicken. I'm saying it's the egg.
The reason I'm more convinced of my position is that a decade of Israeli intelligence at the highest levels backs my position.
Now that said, Oct 7th showed that Israeli intelligence can miss stuff. But let's just look at Russia. Russia is waging a war and saying "and if you don't let this happen, we nuke".
I'm placing myself in the camp that believes Iran has that same sort of mindset and strong man view of the world.
When you say "Israel existing" what you actually mean is allowing Israel to do genocide on the oppressed indigenous Palestinians in the name of lebensraum.
When you say "safe space for the Jews" it's a blatantly obvious falsehood bc Israel is the most dangerous place for Jews at the moment.
Everything we're talking about today Vic has been on repeat since before we were born. In the 50's and 60's when Egypt occupied Gaza and there was no Gaza for Israel to "genocide", it was the same issues and the same conversations. Some Muslims don't want Jews there. We're just looping this over and over.
You've decided it's about Gaza this time. But it's never really been about Gaza. It was the same old same old when Egypt ran Gaza all those years.
You're saying it's the chicken. I'm saying it's the egg.
The reason I'm more convinced of my position is that a decade of Israeli intelligence at the highest levels backs my position.
Now that said, Oct 7th showed that Israeli intelligence can miss stuff. But let's just look at Russia. Russia is waging a war and saying "and if you don't let this happen, we nuke".
I'm placing myself in the camp that believes Iran has that same sort of mindset
Iran sees itself as a regional potentially hegemonic power which kinds makes sense historically and wouldn't surprise anyone, and as such if it can get nukes it will. They don't need special reasons to get nukes. And afaik they are still pursuing having nukes.
https://time.com/6141806/russia-ukraine-...
Russia Has Been Warning About Ukraine for Decades. The West Should Have Listened
Again take the Ukraine conflict. How many are dead right now? Military and civilian. We creeping up on half a million souls and 3 times as many injured? Is that close? I've not checked. I know it's way more than 6 million Ukranian refugees. I bet it's over 10 million.
Measures could and should have been taken YEARS before this. So you can think you're acting for the greater good. But sometimes, the fight is coming to you. It just is.
It was pretty clear that Iran would retaliate. I think it's pretty clear who was hoping that would result in a lot of dead [strike]Jews[/strike] [strike]Zionists[/strike] [strike]Israelis[/strike] [strike]nazis[/strike] white supremacists that love genocide, when Iran inevitably took the bait... even if they wish Iran didn't take the bait to begin with.
The Middle East would definitely be better off if Iran did not have a nuclear weapon. I
fwiw i think Victor genuinely would have preferred for Iran to not relatiate, not because he cares about jews lives, but because he knows Iran retaliation allows Israel to do more.
He wants to win the PR battle and for good reasons he was happy with the trend of more and more leftists in the first world agreeing with him, this even might change the conversation against his preferred wishes at least a bit
You're saying it's the chicken. I'm saying it's the egg.
The reason I'm more convinced of my position is that a decade of Israeli intelligence at the highest levels backs my position.
Now that said, Oct 7th showed that Israeli intelligence can miss stuff. But let's just look at Russia. Russia is waging a war and saying "and if you don't let this happen, we nuke".
I'm placing myself in the camp that believes Iran has that same sort of mindset
Iran could tip the missiles they already have today with yellow bricks they already have today to turn Tel Aviv into radioactive wasteland.
The nuclear weapon genie is so far out of the bottle undergrads can build them in their dorm rooms if they got enough material.
And Iran got plenty.
Bombing nuclear facilities will slow down refinement for sure. But what is the point of slowing Iranians down by a couple of years, at best? Are you going to develop a force field block nukes/block radio active fallout?
https://time.com/6141806/russia-ukraine-...
Russia Has Been Warning About Ukraine for Decades. The West Should Have Listened
Again take the Ukraine conflict. How many are dead right now? Military and civilian. We creeping up on half a million souls and 3 times as many injured? Is that close? I've not checked. I know it's way more than 6 million Ukranian refugees. I bet it's over 10 million.
Measures could and should have been taken YEARS
Indeed but the measures needed were defensive not invading russia
Israel isn't an identical situation but attack is rarely if ever the best means of defense when a politcal solution will still be required. Even if israel 'wins' - then what?
