Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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and btw Hamas is already labelled a terrorist group in many countries.
So anyone spending any effort to , in any way, further Hamas cause, should be in jail in every country that considers Hamas a terrorist group.
So libertarian.
Luciom,
Of course you want the state to do it, you're a totalitarian. But that makes it clear that if you had your way the state would execute Victor and perhaps everyone on 2p2 who thinks things like puberty blockers should be allowed for 17 year olds who identify as trans and their parents and doctors support the decision.
no you know what would happen. if i had my way (and so helping Hamas in any way including through propaganda was a death penalty level crime) victor would simply stop standing for Hamas, because for 99% of the people it's just a game. if they risk actual consequences they stop.
same with most other cultural war considerations.
they would just stop.
Keep palling around with the guy who literally wants tens of millions of Americans executed.
At least he cares about the American hostages. You think Israel should ceasefire without getting them back
And nobody wants to talk about how hamas reje5 the last 2 ceasefires right?
No just the nazi israrelis are committing genocide
The rapes didn't happen according to vic. Thank hashem none of your family is a victim maybe you would wake your self hating jew ass up
At least he cares about the American hostages. You think Israel should ceasefire without getting them back
And nobody wants to talk about how hamas reje5 the last 2 ceasefires right?
No just the nazi israrelis are committing genocide
The rapes didn't happen according to vic. Thank hashem none of your family is a victim maybe you would wake your self hating jew ass up
Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm actually surprised that you didn't say something more like you don't agree with Luciom at all and yeah, he's a fascist freak, but....
Genocide joe is caring about the hostages over Palestinians!!!
Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm actually surprised that you didn't say something more like you don't agree with Luciom at all and yeah, he's a fascist freak, but....
I'm ignoring his comments
When victor calls me a nazi you defend him and tell me "he's not antisemetic dude. He's just unusual!
Keep white knighting him
Maybe you shouldn't ignore someone's comments if you're going to "at least he" the guy.
Maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm actually surprised that you didn't say something more like you don't agree with Luciom at all and yeah, he's a fascist freak, but....
I am a normal person in a novel niche of the world where normality is labelled "fascism" by radicals.
a country democratically chooses its enemies, it's allies. that can change in time.
but at any time if your country is allied with x and enemy with y, and if the country reached those conclusions democratically, you aren't allowed an ex post opinion on that. you have a moral imperative as a member of that country to treat enemies as enemies and viceversa. or at the bare minimum to stay outside of the topic.
you actively try to help enemies? you are a traitor which is one of the worst possible things you can do as a human being.
that's a normal country, not a fascist one.
Microbet
If hamas won't give back the hostages, what should Israel do right now
No buts or ifs
Withdraw and let the hostages rot?
"They aren't helpingthem with what they are doing" isn't a valid answer
you actively try to help enemies? you are a traitor which is one of the worst possible things you can do as a human being.
So you think speech counts as helping the enemy. You've said as much.
Does that mean you think a Gazan who says something like "Israel is a good democratic country with great values" is doing one of the worst things possible and *should* be executed? And, obv, an Israeli saying something good about Hamas is doing something awful and *should* be executed?
So not totalitarian. So libertarian.
Have you gonna to any rallies demanding Israel leave without the hostages this week
At least he cares about the American hostages. You think Israel should ceasefire without getting them back
And nobody wants to talk about how hamas reje5 the last 2 ceasefires right?
No just the nazi israrelis are committing genocide
The rapes didn't happen according to vic. Thank hashem none of your family is a victim maybe you would wake your self hating jew ass up
Hamas offered the hostages back in October. but Israel wanted to do mass murder instead.
they are rejecting cease fires that dont result in basic human rights for the Gazans. why give the POWs back when Israel is just going to continue to beseige them and starve them?
also Israel ofc reneged on the initial hostage deal by going in and rearresting many of the youths that were released in November.
so they need some guarantees.
Microbet
If hamas won't give back the hostages, what should Israel do right now
No buts or ifs
Withdraw and let the hostages rot?
"They aren't helpingthem with what they are doing" isn't a valid answer
I think it's totally fine that my answer is "I don't know". I don't think carte blanche on bombing and destroying the infrastructure is acceptable, but that doesn't mean I think no response would be best either. Israel used to be better at this before they had AI picking out ten thousand targets. They used to do things like have Mossad assassinate a few people or launch targeted raids.
One thing Israel should absolutely do now is be 100% all-in on getting food and water to people in Gaza as well as not do stuff like kill people who are delivering aid.
So you think speech counts as helping the enemy. You've said as much.
Does that mean you think a Gazan who says something like "Israel is a good democratic country with great values" is doing one of the worst things possible and *should* be executed? And, obv, an Israeli saying something good about Hamas is doing something awful and *should* be executed?
So not totalitarian. So libertarian.
Hamas isn't democratically governing that country, did you miss that part?
and Israeli being pro Hamas *actively* should be removed from civil society yes, obviously. executed or life no parole, that's actually a detail, you know my preference, but I am open to the other idea.
Speech in war can be action, and so limited. the 1a in war is limited in the American constitution as well. Nazi orgs had to dismantle once the USA declared war to Germany.
I think it's totally fine that my answer is "I don't know". I don't think carte blanche on bombing and destroying the infrastructure is acceptable, but that doesn't mean I think no response would be best either. Israel used to be better at this before they had AI picking out ten thousand targets. They used to do things like have Mossad assassinate a few people or launch targeted raids.
One thing Israel should absolutely do now is be 100%
every few years in the 200os they killed a few thousand civilians and destroyed important infrastructure.
also, they absolutely committed mass murder in Lebanon in the 80s and destroyed Beirut.
So Hamas commits a terrorist act, brutally murdering 1200+ Israelis. They then kidnap 250 more.
Fearing reprisal, they say they’ll give back the hostages (THAT THEY JUST KIDNAPPED) so long as Israel does nothing about it.
Israel declining this offer is them not wanting a ceasefire.
Genocide vic is actually making this argument. What an absolute joke.
So Hamas commits a terrorist act, brutally murdering 1200+ Israelis. They then kidnap 250 more.
Fearing reprisal, they say they’ll give back the hostages (THAT THEY JUST KIDNAPPED) so long as Israel does nothing about it.
Israel declining this offer is them not wanting a ceasefire.
Genocide vic is actually making this argument. What an absolute joke.
genocide micro is as well as genocide pw
So Hamas commits a terrorist act, brutally murdering 1200+ Israelis. They then kidnap 250 more.
Fearing reprisal, they say they’ll give back the hostages (THAT THEY JUST KIDNAPPED) so long as Israel does nothing about it.
Israel declining this offer is them not wanting a ceasefire.
Genocide vic is actually making this argument. What an absolute joke.
they didnt murder 1200 Israelis. Israel killed some. and some were soldiers
and they didnt kidnap 250. many were soldiers and thus POWs.
every few years in the 200os they killed a few thousand civilians and destroyed important infrastructure.
also, they absolutely committed mass murder in Lebanon in the 80s and destroyed Beirut.
Even that is relative. The Seige of Beirut lasted 7 weeks, killed 4-5000 people and destroyed 500 buildings.
In Gaza now it's like 150000 buildings destroyed.
