Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Of course not everyone understands "river to the sea" the same. People who are chanting "From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will be Free" are not chanting "murder or expel Jews". Most of them just mean to end the war and occupation.
I guess, but at some point, you also have to be cognizant of what your words will mean to the listener.
The "river to sea" chants are unhelpful at best and trolling at worst, but even so they would seem to fall under the basic rubric of protected speech.
The "river to sea" chants are unhelpful at best and trolling at worst, but even so they would seem to fall under the basic rubric of protected speech.
yes, but 1a has nothing to do with occupying other people land.
If a student writes a op-ed in favour of hamas he shouldn't be suspended. If he makes a video chanting from river to the sea, he shouldn't be suspended. If he protests on public land doing either, he shouldn't be suspended.
If he occupies university land and is repeatedly told to leave and he doesn't leave, it has nothing to do with free speech.
They're protesting an attrocity. Worrying that some people will determindley interpret every word and action in the worst way possible is not a pressing concern in a protest.
they were protesting university not selling stock of companies they think are implicated in the purported atrocity, which is quite different.
Even if you agree that Israel government actions in gazas are very bad, it doesn't follow that companies who have assets in Israel are responsible for them, or that owning stocks among thousands of those companies makes you responsible either.
It's a long chain of bullshitting predicated on a specific take of current events that even if shared, doesn't in any way justify them protesting on university land against the university itself.
You know how you can diligently protest against an entity you dislike? like they ask of the university, they should stop paying tuition to an entity they consider responsible for the purported gaza genocide right? that would be the protest.
The "river to sea" chants are unhelpful at best and trolling at worst, but even so they would seem to fall under the basic rubric of protected speech.
We dont have protected speach. The right wing politicians and media have tried to make a big fuss about it but the police have mostly refused to bow to such nonsense
he said the Israeli bombs have killed about 70 detainees
Would you answer the question? I'm asking what you believe and how you personally understand the word "Zionism".
I am personally completely uninterested in the concept of Zionism. It means nothing to me. AFAICT to most people it just means whatever reinforces their pre-existing belief structure, and has no "true" meaning in this regard.
If you want to call yourself a Zionist as you personally understand the term, then by all means do so. If some racist Islamist wants to use it as a euphemistic pejorative to mask their power level, then they can do so. But I am not falling for it, and if you listen long enough most of the time they'll take the mask off themselves anyways.
Human history is one long chain of bad things happening to large groups of people. And the 20th century was especially bad in this regard. I dont regard Israel as any particularly villainous nation, or the Palestinian project as some particularly righteous cause that should be made a priority.
The Palestinian people are one of many refugee situations the world could be helping resolve. The Palestinian political project of the last 80 years works against ameliorating the situation, is absurd, and should not be humored at all by serious people.
I am personally completely uninterested in the concept of Zionism. It means nothing to me. AFAICT to most people it just means whatever reinforces their pre-existing belief structure, and has no "true" meaning in this regard. If you want to call yourself a Zionist as you personally understand the term, then by all means do so.
Human history is one long chain of bad things happening to large groups of people. And the 20th century was es
I guess your answer is that you don't have a personal definition of the word and you think it means different things to different people?
I'm not asking about the other stuff. I'm trying to see how people are using the word here and people can answer that for themselves. It's just semantics, but if people are using the word differently without understanding that, then it's a communication problem.
I guess your answer is that you don't have a personal definition of the word and you think it means different things to different people?
I'm not asking about the other stuff. I'm trying to see how people are using the word here and people can answer that for themselves. It's just semantics, but if people are using the word differently without understanding that, then it's a communication problem.
I think most of us are aware enough to understand this. There is just a lot of bad faith acting and intentional lack of empathy.
People aren't trying to be nice. There's a lot of "**** you" to someone behind what everyone says. Look at this thread.
No one said anyone has to be nice.
I was merely making the point that, if X statement is frequently understood (by me and others) to mean Y, then I can't avoid responsibility for saying Y by explaining that X means something different to me.
If I don't understand that X means Y to a lot of people, then yeah, it's an honest communication problem that should be easy to remedy.
I guess your answer is that you don't have a personal definition of the word and you think it means different things to different people?
I think it is a word that has outlived whatever usefulness it once had and can be retired for good. We are 4 generations and counting. Israel is just a country, and Israeli's being born today are as responsible for what happened in 1948 as Americans being born today are for American Indian massacres in 1650.
I dont spend a lot of time in this forum criticizing Israelis or Jews, as we have plenty of antisemites to do all the heavy lifting in this regard. But I personally think it would be beneficial for Israelis/Jews to give up their victimization complex, and drop the Zionist term themselves.
