2024 Las Vegas Summer Series - non-WSOP

I think we’re splitting hairs. You say many players are in the same boat as you. Ok. But is it the majority? I don’t think so.

Regardless, my comments were in response to the constant complaining about complete schedules not being out yet. If folks are targeting a satellite event, then the schedule coming out only 2 months ahead instead of 3 or 4 shouldn’t cause any issues. Again, I understand the desire to make plans well ahead of time. But for the vast majority of players it’s more psychological and not actually necessary.

In the end, outside of the Venetian which runs basically perma-series, none of the other satellite venues would run enhanced offerings if the WSOP weren’t in town. Their goal is to catch the table scraps from the WSOP and that is typically enough to make for their best month of the year.

by Black Aces 518 k

Definitely much more varied than in the past. Looks like increased buyins too.

by Black Aces 518 k

Ahhh, I remember back in the days when Aria would have a $500 tourney and a 2MM guarantee. Now they have a $1600 tourney and a 500K guarantee.

Things ain’t what they used to be.

That was like the wpt 500 with about 10 flights and turbo flights. Thats long gone. They could have def done a wpt prime tho.

They did increase the gtd for the 3500 main from 2M to 3M.

WPT took their ball over to Wynn, so I don't think an Aria WPT event was likely. That ship has sailed for the time being.

Just two years ago Aria schedule was mostly a bunch of $400 NLHE. They shifted to mostly $600 last year and now another jump to primarily $800.

As Mike Sexton used to say, "The price of poker is going up."

A few years ago, there were $400 daily and $240 nightly. Lowroller players will definitely leave the strip poker rooms...

By the way, no Orleans news this Friday... But the real surprise would have been if they had actually released their schedule...

The Aria series blows away the Venetian one for the PLO events. Lower buy in with higher guarantees. They will be getting my business for non WSOP events when I have holes in my schedule.

Aria series looks good. Some solid gtns for 1 day events. I wish they kept the $600s but $800-200ks aren’t too bad!

I wish aria would run some multi flight events with a huge gtn. Maybe like a $800 with a 500k gtn that had say 4-6 flights where they just ran a morning and early evening flight for 2-3 days and then a day 2.

I like what golden nugget does but their structures are really quick and they run 3 flights a day (night is a turbo flight). I know space is limited etc but wish more places would just run 2 flights a day. I like how Venetian has like a $1100 500k with 2 day 1 flights. Feel these events give a ton of play and aren’t just one day events that are kinda quick.

I prolly won’t even play the smaller buyin golden nugget events bc they become massive crapshoots at most important stage and just don’t see value playing bingo shove fest last with a huge gtn- would rather play smaller variance stuff with better structures. I’m sure these fields are soft and make up for the structure though.

I think I’m going to avoid mystery bounties also- I wish these didn’t get so much love by some players. Idk I think they are goofy and just added variance hoping to get lucky and bink a big pull. Not a fan- that wsop event with huge payout for a $1k tourny- I hate it and don’t understand why people get so hyped to play that: sure you could pull a huge # but it’s so damn unlikely. Feel it takes away from the pool also if you go deep and finish top 3- some of even the payouts for bigger Venetian events are lol (not even mystery bounties). If you finish top 3, you better ko a lot of people haha.

Very much softer, so much so that you can almost alleviate the "crapshoot" aspect because you can 4-6x your starting stack in the first few orbits lol. People play much diff downtown.

I like the Orleans events too. What I don't like is waiting in long reg lines, and there's no way to avoid it. They don't open reg until a couple hours before the event starts. If you time it right, like I do, you can wait in a long line AND be an alternate.

I played very little last fall, room prices were high for me. I played more for the spring 5x and my room rates went down.

The purpose of tons of starting flights is to juice prizepools. They do that, but they also introduce a ton of variance since players not only play very differently than they would in a freezeout event, but also because you run into far more landmine types of situations when lesser-skilled players can re-enter over and over. So while I agree with some of your points here, I can’t help but notice they are at cross purposes. And on top of this, tons of starting flights usually means poorer structure because rooms need to accommodate larger day 2 field sizes.

One of the reasons I am not a fan of the Wynn events this year is because they are essentially cash grabs. PH used to do this as well, though at lower price points. They would routinely have 6, or even as many as 8 starting flights for their featured events.

The same might be said for the WSOP with their additional starting flight for many events this year. I’ll withhold judgement before seeing (for example on plot’s rating site) whether they have loosened their structures in response. But if they have I feel like it would signal a continued bad trend in poker where rooms and many players are happy to see the game turn into a glorified lottery. That is pretty much what some of these mystery bounty events are and it’s making its way to the majority of premier events too.

I like multi flights bc I consider them somewhat softer. I feel a lot of recs see a big gtn and go omg I gotta play that. More players to me generally = many more soft spots (derpy point).

I do agree the large fields increase variance per se but I think that’s something you gotta wear for a big score. I’m fine with the variance and realize yea top 3 or FT is lol unlikely and not going to happen often.

I’ll give an example- I feel borgata does it very well with their almighty stack. They have a morning flight and night flight. The night flights tend to get less players so I consider them meh but they are great if you bust morning flight. I got a top 100 finish in a field with 3800 players and felt the structure was very very good for a $500-600 tourny that had multi flights- structure was great if you ask me for the price point of buyin. Stuff like that is what I want to see.

Venetian to me does it best other than wsop. Like the $1100 500k Venetian tourny has 2 day 1 flights and is to me a great 2 day structure that gives a lot of play but also doesn’t drag on too long like a big 3-5 day event would take. To me- 2 day events are the sweet spot where you have solid play and don’t have to drag on too long. For example I plan to play the monster stack wsop event- it looks like a great structure but boy does it drag on. I almost think they should play till money on day 1 and just extend levels once in the money on day 2 for example. Maybe I’m a goof but I think 40min levs and then extending on day 2 to make it more player friendly when the money is on the line would be cool but just a thought.

For the monster stack- if I made day 2 and busted before the money- I would feel like I wasted a lot of time. It would be quite the bummer.

Btw final note for big gtn multi flights- don’t we want people to fire like maniacs. I think it’s funny when you hear people fire 5 bullets in a solid structure tourny on 1 day when max should be 2 bullets bc you can always reload another flight. I heard a well known pro fired 8 bullets at a $400 with a meh structure at wsop ts. That’s cool but idk have fun firing too many bullets. I’ll fire my 1-2 per flight and not hope to sun run to build a stack. It’s not like pros edge is going to be big against me in crucial stages bc I’ve studied hard. Even the fact really good players can fire a lot of bullets- is it good value to fire 5 bullets a flight just to hope to catch sun run? Idk I think folks go way overboard with firing bullets at mtts hoping to win but not realizing variance is brutal and even building up day a huge stack isn’t going to result in insane results all the time- I’ve went chip leader or close on day 2 and bust early- also have times I’ve been below average and won tournies on day 2. Sure chip leader or close is better but still gotta run insanely hot when stacks get shallow in mtt play during the money.

To me the 40k/40 min (no level skipping) structure the Venetian uses in their Ultimate stack is pretty much the sweetspot for MTTs. The hour-long starting blinds at things like the MS and MM at the WSOP just cause too much of a grind to make the money. It would be better for players of all skill levels for those events to start will 45min blinds at most so they can get in the money day 1. Extend it to an hour at a later point, if you want. But grinding for a day and a half for no return is tough.

As for the rest, I don’t deny that massive prizepools are exciting and large fields tend to be softer. But the variance is a killer.

I would have a less dim view of events with all these starting days if the prizepools were not so top heavy. I don’t know if the Wynn will have the same payout structure this summer as it had in the WPT prime championship in December. But that tourney was absurd, almost to the point where a tournament with a 10MM prizepool is unappealing. A top 100 finish out of 10,000+ entries got like 6x. There’s just no need to make the tournament that much of a lottery. It’s bad for the poker economy. Nobody is going to be turned away if a 1100 event had a 750k first place prize instead of nearly double that.

Couldn't agree more. I recently played my first such event at the Venetian and thought it was just perfect. I love that they have these 2-day tournaments at reasonable price points going just about year-round. It means any time I can get away for a short trip to LV I can count on finding a good MTT to play. I'll be interested to see their new room when it opens this Summer.

Absolutely. These tournaments get too preoccupied with having a big number up top, to the detriment of players who make deep runs but come up short of the final table. A friend of mine played the WPT Prime this year and we were thrilled to see him making a deep run. Unfortunately he ran into a cooler and ended up busting 174th (out of 10,500). He played until nearly midnight on Day 2, and finished in the top 1.7% of the field. For his efforts he made $4300, less than 4x his buy-in. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I did much better (over 10x return) by finishing 2nd out of 62 entries in my local casino's $450 1-day tournament the next day. Sure, I had to navigate final table play to finish there, but in terms of outlasting a percentage of the field, it was half as impressive as his run. Just doesn't seem right.

Guess your source was wrong. Nothing on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday.

Lolz

I agree with this 100%. The Venetian 40k 40 min levels are so great- they finish in 2days but still have a ton of play in important stages. I think the WSOP has some level skips for smaller events which I don’t like. Idk 400 to 600 is level is meh kinda I feel.

Even the Venetian 30k 40 min lev events are great if you ask me. I love what Venetian offers and that is why they get most of my play. I feel even Wynn kinda is a little worse than Venetian in terms of structure unless a super high buy in. I’ve felt Wynn play has been softer than Venetian though in early stages bc they get some Wynn hotel stayers that are rich and could care less about losing what is prolly peanuts to them.

Also I def agree that some of the payouts should be flatter. Agree 750k payout is awesome and doesn’t have to be 1.5 mill per se where you could spread out money for more cash out in poker economy. Also lowers tax hit the winner will get which tends to be insane when you think about it. 30% on 750k is what 225k Vs 450k for 1.5 mill for example. Not going to lie- I hate chopping but prolly would in such a top heavy structure unless I had a huge chip advantage and a solid icm deal couldn’t be agreed to. I feel most people chop 3 ways though for icm generally.

Final note- I kinda wish I wasn’t doing a 1.5week trip so I could do more Venetian. I’m going June 6-19 and can’t play all Venetian bc seniors event and some of the events at places like aria will be better. $800-100k at ven Vs 800-200k at aria. I’m not a fan of the $800 bty events Venetian will run as I like freezeouts more even though bty events are less variance.

I’m looking forward to the $1100-500k and maybe 1 bullet at the $1600-750k at Venetian. Venetian is still by far my favorite room and place to play tournies in vegas. Wsop is awesome but I’ve done pretty meh there + the dealers can be super hit or miss at the WSOP. At Venetian or Wynn- you don’t have to worry about meh dealers.

The WSOP definitely loves the big top number and they have watered down the payouts lower than the top 1% when they extended the payouts to 15% from the old 12.5% Out of curiosity I was checking my own payout from a $300 buyin Senior event 140 runners last week where we chopped it 4 ways and all took home $5300. To have gotten the same PROFIT at the 3120 player super senior last year I would have needed to finish mid 50's. To get the same MULTIPLE to buyin I would have had to finish 15th. Now $17K is a lot more profit but making the last two tables is pretty rarified air at the WSOP.

Personally the 40 minute day 1 and 1 hour day 2,3 levels mentioned by Akashenk has a lot of appeal to me. Making Day 2 and still getting knocked out before the money is frustrating to say the least. Even a flat 45 minute round would be fine even with the 20K starting stacks it gives a player a reasonable shot at chipping up before getting involved in the typical early preflop shoves that so many Rec players seem to be moving toward with well over 20 BB's.

I will say I absolutely prefer the 1 hour levels over the 30 minute levels almost regardless of starting stack size. To me it puts emphasis on really understanding stack size to bet sizing and provides much longer opportunities to use that skill set selectively without feeling compelled over play any particular hand.

Orleans Schedule is Out! Odd that they are front running some of their Championship events instead of having them in late June as usual.
https://twitter.com/OrleansPokerRo1

Darn it they set their Senior event the day I am arriving. I might have to add another day to my schedule.

Does any know where the summer Poker Festival chart for Las Vegas is located ? A member, I think named "Spacy JCB" or something like that would put one out every year.

If you're looking for a comprehensive schedule of all the summer events, here are two:

https://poker-schedule.com/tournaments

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...

this thread is not bad as well. You can find PDF schedules (all the tournaments, non NLHE only, etc...)
https://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poker/to...

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