Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Putin is speaking in defense clearly BUT he is claiming the illegally annexed territory as it's own
You are spouting media narratives whereas I have been referring to Putins interview with tucker where its his OWN words and his OWN translator (you understand now why they did that?). Rather than the media that we all KNOW lies and is lying.
Putin said American boosts on the ground (in Ukraine) means threat of nukes. Not sure how else that sentence is understood. What are we even doing in here?
You are spouting media narratives whereas I have been referring to Putins interview with tucker where its his OWN words and his OWN translator (you understand now why they did that?). Rather than the media that we all KNOW lies and is lying.
I don't spout any media narrative. Please read again what I wrote
I read it again. U are making statements about putin based on what you are reading in the media that is lying.
I am citing putins words through putins translator meant for the western population to hear.
I actually have (moldovan) Russian speaking friends (and they lean Putin, but i am trying to help them understand things better) translating stuff for me, I am the less biased person you can talk with in this forum about this stuff
I actually have (moldovan) Russian speaking friends (and they lean Putin, but i am trying to help them understand things better) translating stuff for me, I am the less biased person you can talk with in this forum about this stuff
Is there a better a source tho than putins own words and own translator in an interview that was purposefully intended to be a clear signal to western citizens?
Is there a better a source tho than putins own words and own translator in an interview that was purposefully intended to be a clear signal to western citizens?
He believes the areas of Ukraine he annexed are now part of Russia.
His "strong belief" about that doesn't mean anything to me tbh
The ceremony for accession at the Kremlin.
Among his people, at "home", he made it as clear as possible he considers that land part of Russia
The ceremony for accession at the Kremlin.
Among his people, at "home", he made it as clear as possible he considers that land part of Russia
There isn't enough context there for me to parse anything.
I don't have a good understanding of the history. My understanding is that putin feels from the view of russians these are a russian territories. That they always were culturally.
He explains in the tucker interview the divide in the conflict is russia verses russia (culturally), and he invites the listener to scrutinize the truth of this. does this run in contrast to what you are saying or parallel?
(see we are having proper dialogue)
There isn't enough context there for me to parse anything.
I don't have a good understanding of the history. My understanding is that putin feels from the view of russians these are a russian territories. That they always were culturally.
He explains in the tucker interview the divide in the conflict is russia verses russia (culturally), and he invites the listener to scrutinize the truth of this. does this run in contrast to what you
Putin uses the very basic Hitleresque doctrine of considering "his land" any land where Russian is spoken by the majority of residents.
That's literally step by step what Hitler did in Sudetenland.
The existence of a strong Germanphone community there, majoritarian, was used as a cultural claim of nation.
We decided this isn't a way to decide borders. We decided violence to change borders is simply not allowed anymore.
Putin tried to challenge us with Crimea and we accepted that, and that was the insane mistake. Then ofc after a while he kept going
Putin uses the very basic Hitleresque doctrine of considering "his land" any land where Russian is spoken by the majority of residents.
That's literally step by step what Hitler did in Sudetenland.
The existence of a strong Germanphone community there, majoritarian, was used as a cultural claim of nation.
We decided this isn't a way to decide borders. We decided violence to change borders is simply not allowed anymore.
Putin tried to challenge
You have gone back to narrating.
Is what I said counter, different....or is it a parallel sentiment? I don't know how you would answer.
I want to over some material that outlines the definition for the euphemism or phrase 'the Keynesians'. The reason I do this is because I believe the definition present properly encompasses one side of the proxy conflict and the material I present is in fact about the conflict between the two parites, the Keynesians and Moscow. Then we have well defined parties etc.
So let us define "Keynesian" to be descriptive of a "school of thought" that originated at the time of the devaluations of the pound and the dollar
in the early 30's of the 20th century. Then, more specifically,
Spoiler
#intro
#enterKeynesians
#keynesianParty
#keynesianParty2
#conclusion
So you see the "keynesians" have started a proxy war against moscow to start the attrition war between the two parties.
We're extremely dangerously closer to a nuclear war today than we ever were this should at the very minimum concern people enough to get them off TDS. The United States, by sending our weapons to Ukraine, have become an even bigger enemy to Russia than Ukraine is rn (be far) but no one seems to wanna talk about it or is even able to intelligently comprehend what's been happening over the past several years (although it goes back much farther).
A very powerful Russian nuclear submarine called the Kazan is currently staging hundreds of feet off the FL coast. It's being tracked by U.S. P8 subhunters (who have either found it and are tracking it or they're actually still looking for it) and other Russain warships are staging near Cuba.
I'm bout to make another prediction. The ****'s bout to hit the fan. We're bout to go to SD with a BSE.
Here's the DS P8 tracking or looking for the sub early in the morning (and before anyone suggests "it's just a training mission" anyone in the aviation industry knows we don't fly through thunderstorms like that. Planes are vectored around them (and they beg to be redirected around them some times). A regular a/c couldn't really handle all the turbulence but this guy is flying through storms like butter (not to mention he's flying without a call sign and his reg is blocked out so imho he's taking orders from one of the few DS generals left (more than 200 have been relived/fired in the past 4 years).
W. T. F.
We're extremely dangerously closer to a nuclear war today than we ever were this should at the very minimum concern people enough to get them off TDS. The United States, by sending our weapons to Ukraine, have become an even bigger enemy to Russia than Ukraine is rn (be far) but no one seems to wanna talk about it or is even able to intelligently comprehend what's been happening over the past several years (although it goes back much farthe
BGP posted about 100 similar posts like this citing random twitter accounts constantly claiming imminent threats from Russia being about to blow up the nuclear power plant. Those posts are deleted and I would like to cite them now that we have reputable leaders saying that the opposite was true:
[QUOTE=Jeffery Sachs]
You could have a pandemic that kills an estimated 20 million people and not really care to find out where it came from you can be on the brink of nuclear war we can have Ukraine shelling the Zaria nuclear power plant do you know our newspapers won't say that it's Ukraine shelling the power plant all they will and Ukraine is shelling the nuclear power plant I can reveal as if it's a surprise because the Russians are inside the power plant and the ukrainians are trying to take back the power plant and so these shells come to the nuclear power plant and then our lovely our lovely newspapers say each side accuses the other of shelling the nuclear power plant and I happen to know for you know the reasons that I know some of these things that the of course it's Ukraine shelling a plant that the Russians are inside of not Russians shelling the plant that they but you can't get officialdom to say this you can't get the newspapers to say this that's pretty serious to be shelling a nuclear power plant.[/QUOTE]
Also we are going to let Playbig2000 make these posts right because we let lies like these posts flood the narrative when they were clear pro ukraine propaganda.
yes but the us provoked them into that by giving an active war enemy weapons it would be "weak" for them to do nothing. its a cycle that will never end .
Anyway since victor is banned is this thread back to arguing about pointless definitions and pretending like Ukraine's winning the war. I have never been one to care about a cycle of provocations deciding who was in the right . we cant go back in time finding a solution is all that matters
yes but the us provoked them into that by giving an active war enemy weapons it would be "weak" for them to do nothing. its a cycle that will never end .
Anyway since victor is banned is this thread back to arguing about pointless definitions and pretending like Ukraine's winning the war
ya but now we have a new euphemism and definition to refer to 'the keynesians'
The lies need to stop. Jbouton was not targeted by mods for his proxy war views. I recall no deleted posts of his. If he's referring to when the entire thread got nuked (not by this mod team as he previously lied) then he's completely misrepresenting what happened.
IAEA is not a "random twitter". I never claimed Russia was blowing up ZNPP the next day... I reported quality information that IAEA was complaining that Russia would not give them access to key parts of the plant. That is a fact. I specifically said that the chances of anything happening here were slim, but the outcome from that slim chance happening would be so catastrophic that it is a major news story at the moment. Ultimately since nothing happened, this is a minor footnote in this war. The only reason it is being brought up now is because jbouton has a vendetta against me, as he's mentioned several times now and is evident by him constantly bringing up my name and then inventing completely false stories about what I said or did. This is trolling.
If you are posting Scott Ritter and RT, and also calling some of the foremost experts on the war "random twitter guys" then you do not have the requisite knowledge to determine what is or what is not a good source.
As to the argument at hand: we have a useful idiot, conspiracy theorist (Sachs) on one side. Then we have just about every major expert on the issue on the other side. Since there's no further evidence being put forth, I'm going to go with every major expert who is posting verifiable data and evidence which I can analyze instead of some random thoughts from a conspiracy theorist useful idiot.
Can we get some Colonel Douglas Macgregor into the mix?
Russia is a rapidly declining power. We lost but made them work for it so just give them their small victory we are never taking back that land without casualties that are nearly the population of those regions and continuing risks losing more land. Ukrainian pov is a sunken lost fallacy . Alot of the people in those region want to be Russian anyway. We played around with Nuclear annihilation and any peace treaty will have Ukraine keeping most of its country so what gives. Russia is too crippled to make anymore wars for the forseeable futureland unless we force their hand. We gave it a good go lets stop ww3 now. Its time to stop having peace talks without inviting Russia
Ukraine cannot end the war since Putin is unwilling to negotiate. He needs to recognize he lost in order for there to be a peace settlement of any kind. This will absolutely go on longer and it's not Ukraine's fault at all.
Russia is a rapidly declining power. We lost but made them work for it so just give them their small victory we are never taking back that land without casualties that are nearly the population of those regions and continuing risks losing more land. Ukrainian pov is a sunken lost fallacy . Alot of the people in those region want to be Russian anyway. We played around with Nuclear annihilation and any peace treaty will have Ukraine keeping
You are missing a crucial point on the Ukrainian side. Which changes their equation. This isn't sunken cost fallacy because if they don't solve donbass, and send Putin back, it's gg Ukraine.
Why? because the people who left won't come back to a super-weakened Ukraine under future threats of invasion by Putin.
If Ukraine can't get back the millions who left (some of their most productive citizens btw, almost all working age people + children) their demographic pyramid is annihilated and they are done as a country.
So no matter how low the odds are to fix this in a way that could convince people to come back, they have to try.
