Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Can I ask you to briefly tell me about the israeli command center ?
How can this paragraph be true ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya
"In World War II, British forces took control of Sarona and converted it into a prison camp for Germans. After the war, the German prisoners were deported, mostly to Australia, and Sarona became a British military and police base.
Like I've said earlier in this thread, I have no interest in litigating the past, because that would be like missing the forest for the trees.
That's not the point of what's going on here. And there's an extremely important point to understand, imho.
Iran and Russia are strange bedfellows right now allying to undermine Western democracies. They are weaponizing all the most popular social media apps that mostly young people use, because they tend to be easiest to propagandize AND mobilize. How do we know this? Multiple intelligence agencies have corroborated this (I posted links above), including US intelligence, and there's an Iranian activist whistleblower (I'd recommend reading up on this whistleblower) who released classified IRGC documents, stating the intended goals of Israel isolationism, which included plans to stop AND block any food and supply aide to Palestine.
Psyops like these are going to be the modus operandi of these countries going forward, as I'm sure many of you know, because it's the most cost-effective. They obviously can't compete against US and ally's military budgets.
With risk of sounding trite, my primary point in this whole thread is... make sure you have a VERY good understanding of how to dissect propaganda. It can be harder than you may think at times. They use all the emotional, psychological, and confirmation bias avenue's they can to manipulate you. And thanks to social media, they have hundreds of psychological archetypes that can aim content to your specific weaknesses. Why do you think Russia wanted that Cambridge Analytica data so badly?
About every 80-90 years (roughly one full generation), we fall into the repeating cycle of fighting off fascism. Same steps. Same events happening over and over. Every historian tries to put together the patterns of history and make sense of it. I think this is one of the easier ones to understand imho.
You just have to keep at the forefront of your mind the same questions when you're reading current news events. Who benefits if this is true? Who is potentially harmed? What are the sources? Can I corroborate X story from multiple (at least 3) reliable news sources. What's the end goal? I'm sure a lot of you do... but just make sure you're always checking your biases.
After all, the goal is stop innocent people from being killed in Palestine, correct? I believe just about all of us in here want that. But we need to make sure we're targeting the correct enemies first, and be aligned there before we have any shot of doing that. Otherwise we're just a bunch of divided and confused (fill in the blank). Obviously I'm not saying 2+2 is going to put an end to this 😉, but this is an exponentially infectious problem that can only be solved by talking to each other, and listening to each other, and passing on good information to each other, instead of bogus sht and propaganda.
China is doing the same and can compete with USA's military budget.
Bro is gonna lecture us on propaganda after spewing some of the cheapest Hasbara talking points.
Address the content, not the poster.
how many of you guys fell for the obv fake story about the suicide?
Info regarding the previous discussion on how long for Iran to get nukes. I don't think this means they could necessarily deploy the nukes in this timeframe, but gives a good idea:
Starting with Obama, for good or bad I think we have to accept that the Democrats are perfectly fine with IRI getting nukes, and we just have to accept that is how things are going to go. There is really no other way to interpret our foreign policy towards Iran under Obama and Biden.
As I have mentioned before, although it has been memory holed, Obama's top 2 security experts for Iran were found out to be more or less Iranian spies, and everyone just shrugged their shoulders and doesn't care at all. There are also literally Iranian govt agents embedded in our highest end universities teaching very pro IRI foreign policy, and again the response of the people in charge is just a shrug.
I mean, I understand why IRI spies working in our govt and University system are so pro IRI. But I really dont know why the majority of Democrat elites seem to like Islamism so much, other than in their minds it aligns with leftism (although it obviously doesn't really).
Well, you are the only one talking about it. So I guess it would just be you. I would say I am pretty plugged into social media propaganda targeting both sides (at least English versions, obviously I doth speak Hebrew or Arabic so I am going to be missing a lot), and I had to google search what you are even talking about.
---Well, this guy represents the group running Gaza that the UN insists on unconditionally supporting, and this is the opposite of their stated goal. So given we unconditionally support people that are actively trying to get innocent people killed, I think it is hard to argue that is the actual goal at all.
Oh yeah, this guy is being hosted by Turkey, another great US "ally" that is clearly trying to make the world a better place for everyone.
Starting with Obama, for good or bad I think we have to accept that the Democrats are perfectly fine with IRI getting nukes, and we just have to accept that is how things are going to go. There is really no other way to interpret our foreign policy towards Iran under Obama and Biden.
As I have mentioned before, although it has been memory holed, Obama's top 2 security experts for Iran were found out to be more or less Iranian spies, and eve
Well since we're restating our previous arguments, 27o thinks Iran getting nukes is fake news that was just recently invented, PW thinks it's kool-aid brainwashing to convince us that Iran is evil.
I think that Iran got close enough to getting a nuke that it became impossible to deter anymore, so it was decided that the best approach was to convince them not to go the last few steps. I'm still critical of it, but don't think it's quite as nefarious as your'e suggesting.
0 clue what the suicide story is.
Well, you are the only one talking about it. So I guess it would just be you. I would say I am pretty plugged into social media propaganda targeting both sides (at least English versions, obviously I doth speak Hebrew or Arabic so I am going to be missing a lot), and I had to google search what you are even talking about.
I highly doubt you missed it considering you follow Drew Pavlou
and no ofc I didnt fall for it bc it was transparently rediculous and the typical atrocity propaganda that has been used since day 1 to justify the mass murder of Palestinians.
you know who did fall for it? this guy.
it was a fake suicide letter where the writer claims he killed himself out of guilt for witnessing a gang rape at Nova. its been since deleted but not before being spread far and wide by leading Hasbarist liar Hen Mazzig.
but what about Russian and Iranian propaganda? thats the real bad stuff.
Russia's is certainly worse and more effective as we've seen.
I had no idea what Viktor was talking about and I am permanently online.
looks like this was propaganda targeting people like you Viktor lol, making you believe propaganda was there just to trigger you or something
Well since we're restating our previous arguments, 27o thinks Iran getting nukes is fake news that was just recently invented, PW thinks it's kool-aid brainwashing to convince us that Iran is evil.
I think that Iran got close enough to getting a nuke that it became impossible to deter anymore, so it was decided that the best approach was to convince them not to go the last few steps. I'm still critical of it, but don't think it's quite as ne
Seems Europe cares more about Iran getting nukes than the US does (or at least the Democrat Party). But the Europeans seem to be getting a real time lesson that when you decide to demilitarize, and more generally deindustrialize, no one cares what you have to say anymore.
China's budget is ~1/3rd of the U.S.'s, but they are also a player in this. They are just smartly staying out of Israeli isolationism strategy. The US has a long-standing complex relationship w/ China, but they are obviously also aligned w/ Russia in many geopolitical agendas. China understands what Israel means to the U.S. so any involvement they have would be on the periphery.
Competitive with who? Not with the US
How many cold blooded killers with combat experience does China have? The number is close to zero
The US has tens of thousands
Just look at total tanks + planes+ air craft carriers
Russias is the best as far as nations go. Maybe Hollywood is better I dunno
China has three aircraft carriers: Liaoning, Shandong, and Fujian. Liaoning began life as a Soviet navy carrier, but the USSR collapsed before it could be finished.
The United States has 11 aircraft carriers, which is more than any other country and accounts for 40% of the world's total. The US's combined deck space is more than double that of all other countries combined
The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force and Navy have over 3,150 aircraft combined, not including trainer variants and unmanned aircraft systems (UAS). China's air force is the third largest in the world
The United States Armed Forces has more than 14,000 military aircraft in its inventory. According to the 10-year Aircraft Investment Plan issued by the U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense, there were 14,061 aircraft in the fleet as of 2019
How many tanks does China produce annually? How many tanks does China have? According to Global Firepower, China have 6,457 tanks in service.
The United States military has approximately 4,657 main battle tanks (MBTs) in its arsenal, which is the most of any NATO member state. The US also has 12,800 armored fighting vehicles in storage, including 2,000 MBTs
China also has more corruption, and basically zero combat experience. It wouldnt be a fair fight or even a close fight.
They are also fighting for communism , which is not as awesome as fighting for FREEDOM , so Americans get +1 advantage there too
Let’s also not forget that the US has self defense pacts with the UK, so china would be fighting them too.
Luckily our economies are so tied up this would never happen. And China would be broke if they stopped dealing with the US.
Really wish we'd wrap up the wars with Gaza and Lebanon before starting a new one with Iran.
Seems Europe cares more about Iran getting nukes than the US does (or at least the Democrat Party). But the Europeans seem to be getting a real time lesson that when you decide to demilitarize, and more generally deindustrialize, no one cares what you have to say anymore.
How do you figure? EU's sanctions are largely catching up to USA's, not surpassing. Biden has added sanctions despite trying to get Iran to negotiate more.
EU has always supported JCPOA.
China's budget is ~1/3rd of the U.S.'s, but they are also a player in this. They are just smartly staying out of Israeli isolationism strategy. The US has a long-standing complex relationship w/ China, but they are obviously also aligned w/ Russia in many geopolitical agendas. China understands what Israel means to the U.S. so any involvement they have would be on the periphery.
I said "can", not that they currently are. They are expected to surpass USA's military spending in our lifetime which is a huge deal.
You also can't really compare these 1:1. China's spending is far more than the 1/3 of USA's budget figure suggests.
Damn never heard that claim about Chinese military spending. Gonna need to research
You know Chinas economy is beginning to have long term serious issues due to a lack of labor. Their population is expected to drastically shrink. I do not see their military spending increasing so much that it passes ours
Apparently they spend between 250B and 450B and we spend about $900B
Bro is gonna lecture us on propaganda after spewing some of the cheapest Hasbara talking points.
You're right, I shouldn't have concluded the letter part of the story, because I do think it's been adequately debunked. I save a lot of info in real time when I read news about topics, and I included that part of the story without double-checking it again (later). At the time I marked it, it seemed the AP was also corroborating this, but they retracted that part.
Apologies... the other parts of the NY times and AP stories still hold though.
Barak Ravid was in the IDF in their intelligence unit ffs.
the NYT deliberately misinforms people as policy.
CNN needed to route all of its Gaza stories through the Jerusalem office if you remember.
just about everything from mainstream Western outlets about this conflict is pro-Israeli propaganda. likewise, you will never see an unbiased account of the Ukraine War or the anything wrt to China from mainstream press.
