Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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typical liberal hypocrisy. I am disappoint.
Ah typical liberal hypocrisy. Supporting a liberal democracy defending itself over a terrorist organization that randomly attacks civilians.
its liberal hypocrisy to hold the Palestinians to a completely different standard than you hold your team. ofc, its not surprising and we all know why it is done.
liberals: anyone providing material support to our enemy is punishable by death
Hamas: kills a bunch of IDF ravers
liberals: nooooo not like that
some Gazan turned 18 and paid taxes on his summer job. thats material support. liberals ofc sleep well knowing it was good drone strike on him and his younger brother and sister. (they would sleep well anyway).
liberals: anyone providing material support to our enemy is punishable by death
Hamas: kills a bunch of IDF ravers
liberals: nooooo not like that
Mods threatened to ban Luciom for making factual statements about IQ differences across ethnicity but will allow Victor to spew his garbage terrorist apologia? lmao
you are the people who are saying that anyone who provides "material support" is worthy of killing. you are the ones who are creating a situation where no civilian is off limits.
I am just summarizing this insane liberal position and dont subscribe to it.
I am not a liberal so I don't need any hypocrisy.
Palestinian terrorists have no legitimacy to do anything to anyone.
the IDF is fully legitimized to used lethal violence to secure the safety of Israeli.
why? because Israel is a democratic country with a standing army while Palestine is a made up concept with no real life elements, and the people living in Gaza and the west bank have no right to organize violently to achieve their goals.
you are the people who are saying that anyone who provides "material support" is worthy of killing. you are the ones who are creating a situation where no civilian is off limits.
I am just summarizing this insane liberal position and dont subscribe to it.
You combined our two positions into one. We don't have the same position. You're also calling Luciom a liberal which is probably just a Marxist equivocation.
We all know you're a pro-Stalin tankie so I doubt you have any actual principle against indiscriminate killing.
The IDF isn't "killing tens of thousands in Gaza". The IDF killed tens of thousands in a completly justified carpet attack to the territory to dismantle main Hamas strongholds all at the same time, many months ago, and currently is killing 1-2k per month at most since like April.
Of which the vast majority Hamas members or material supporters, + people used as human shield by Hamas. Very very few completly innocent people not put into harm w
bruv this you?
lol not only are material supporters worthy of killing, also the supposed human shields (who are deemed such by IDF ofc).
face it, if you apply this criteria then there is no such thing as a civilian on either side.
You combined our two positions into one. We don't have the same position. You're also calling Luciom a liberal which is probably just a Marxist equivocation.
We all know you're a pro-Stalin tankie so I doubt you have any actual principle against indiscriminate killing.
you do realize who was anti-Stalin right? its kinda weird to align yourself with that crew but hey, it reads.
What is an "IDF raver"?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88l4...
The entire article is a good read, especially for anyone who thinks one side is entirely in the right.
Full ICC statement on Netanyahu and Hamas arrest warrants
"On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Yahya SINWAR (Head of the Islamic Resistance Movement (“Hamas”😉 in the Gaza Strip), Mohammed Diab Ibrahim AL-MASRI, more commonly known as DEIF (Commander-in-Chief of the military wing of Hamas, known as the Al-Qassam Brigades), and Ismail HANIYEH (Head of Hamas Political Bureau) bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of Israel and the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 7 October 2023:
Extermination as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(b) of the Rome Statute;
Murder as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(a), and as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Taking hostages as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(iii);
Rape and other acts of sexual violence as crimes against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(g), and also as war crimes pursuant to article 8(2)(e)(vi) in the context of captivity;
Torture as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(f), and also as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity;
Other inhumane acts as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(l)(k), in the context of captivity;
Cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity; and
Outrages upon personal dignity as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(ii), in the context of captivity.
"On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Benjamin NETANYAHU, the Prime Minister of Israel, and Yoav GALLANT, the Minister of Defence of Israel, bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 8 October 2023:
Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;
Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);
Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;
Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);
Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).
Hamas and the Gazans are not the perfect victims. duly noted.
Hamas being a victim might be the dumbest thing you have ever said.
Correct, the core issue here is the people not recognizing the toxicity of Jihad on western democracies. The pro-Palestinian people in here are overlooking that entirely, complaining about occupation and land disputes. You can listen to the well documented call of the Hamas kid calling his mom from the woman's phone he just killed and bragging about the fact he just killed 10 Jews w/ his bare hands, and his mother and father being so proud.
Islam is beyond defense, but killing noncombatants is indefensible. Once you do that, you're no longer the good guys in the race.
The IDF isn't "killing tens of thousands in Gaza". The IDF killed tens of thousands in a completly justified carpet attack to the territory to dismantle main Hamas strongholds all at the same time, many months ago, and currently is killing 1-2k per month at most since like April.
Of which the vast majority Hamas members or material supporters, + people used as human shield by Hamas. Very very few completly innocent people not put into harm w
man, I dont think you guys want to go down the road of "material support equals a death sentence." well, I guess consistency was never a strong suit for the liberals so its proly fine.
lol
Luciom out there justifying the next 9/11 and has no ****ing clue
OK, when you engage in collective punishment, you're no longer justified in your attacks
Sure, but it makes it very hard to show in international court that Israel had the mens rea to commit collective punishment when Hamas uses civilian clothing to disguise themselves, uses human shields, and when Israel is actively facilitating international aid efforts.
Also lefties hurt their ability to argue this issue when they don’t differentiate between combatant deaths and civilian deaths, as well as use slimy tactics like counting the death of Hamas 17 year old soldiers as a “child death”.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/pakistani...
“The defendant is alleged to have planned a terrorist attack in New York City around October 7th of this year with the stated goal of slaughtering, in the name of ISIS, as many Jewish people as possible,”
Sure, but it makes it very hard to show in international court that Israel had the mens rea to commit collective punishment when Hamas uses civilian clothing to disguise themselves, uses human shields, and when Israel is actively facilitating international aid efforts.
Also lefties hurt their ability to argue this issue when they don’t differentiate between combatant deaths and civilian deaths, as well as use slimy tactics like counting the
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/20...
In late January, I left my home in Virginia, where I work as a plastic and reconstructive surgeon and joined a group of physicians and nurses traveling to Egypt with the humanitarian aid group MedGlobal to volunteer in Gaza.
I have worked in other war zones. But what I witnessed during the next 10 days in Gaza was not war — it was annihilation
“I asked the nurse, what’s the history? She said that they were brought in a couple of hours ago. They had sniper shots to the brain. They were seven or eight years old,” she said.
The Canadian doctor’s heart sank. These were not the first children treated by Alvi who she was told were targeted by Israeli soldiers, and she knew the damage a single high-calibre bullet could do to a fragile young body.
“They were not able to talk, paraplegic. They were literally lying down as vegetables on those beds. They were not the only ones. I saw even small children with direct sniper shot wounds to the head as well as in the chest. They were not combatants, they were small children,” said Alvi.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/a...
This goes on for ever. Recently saw an interview with an American doctor who said he saw a child who was executed with a bullet to the head at least once a day.
