2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
I think there are 2 different things. I think we agree 50s nostalgia basically ignores non white people.
For unions leaving Dems, I think you're making a common mistake when it comes to demo mashing election data. My understanding of your claim is something like unions are voting less Dem now than in the past because of perception about their policies on trade and support for labor etc. I think that's wrong because you're not normalizi
It might or might not ignore non whites. I think it's possible to desire that lifestyle for all and to come close to realizing that desire.
There also are some areas where minorities, especially Black people were better off. In tact families are more important the poorer you are. Far lower rates of incarceration, which is one of the worst life outcomes. Far lower rates of obesity.
It's clear imo that we can seek to restore much of this Without bringing back the racism and other intolerance.
idk they've convinced me that in order to bring back prosperity we all need to be more racist
maybe you're right and we can have prosperity without racism, but then again, this is like a modern pascal's wager where it's better to hedge your bet and be racist just in case that's a required condition for prosperity
Also, there are a ton oof countries where there has been prosperity that was shared with the bottom 50-70% without a large racial under class.
Ok? But this obviously does not apply to the US in the 50s and 60s that did have a large racial underclass.
I'm pretty left on a lot of issues, but the idea that prosperity is finite and can only be acquired by taking it from others is one of the more sophomore ideas on the left imo.
Maybe that isn't what is being suggested but it sounds like it. It's strange to see that argument used in favor of neo liberal politicians.
Yeah, I don't think you're actually responding to what is being said, but rather a straw man version no it. If I was doing something like that I could say something like " it's strange to see supposed liberals argue for a return to the highly racist and exclusionary policies of the 50s". But that would be dishonest as you're not saying that.
Nobody is saying that prosperity is finite, but just straight data from the 50s and 60s shows that only white non college educated workers are doing worse now than then and that group also had significantly propped up wages from reduced competition through institutionalized racism and sexism. If you agree with that we can maybe begin a more accurate discussion of the overall unskilled labor market.
you act like the unions only did well by exlcuding blacks, yet black kept showing up to work in the auto industry (and shudder to think even joined the unions) to the point where detroit went from barely any blacks to majority black in just 2-3 decades
it's just lazy to say that union workers did well then due to racism
and yes, this is exactly how i understood you comment as well
that's insane and wholly unfounded - you're just guessing becau
You’re responding to things I never said and giving a generic, boilerplate rant.
I will address one really stupid thing you said though. Of course Black people will want to go after jobs in the auto industry and union jobs. They were the best low-skill jobs available. How does that prove that they weren’t discriminated against? In fact, you would expect that Black people being the ones that are most highly discriminated against when it comes to education at that time would be the type of people that would occupy such jobs disproportionately to their population size.
edit: there is even a whole section about this on the Wikipedia article about the auto industry in the United States during the 1950s. Despite the fact that Black people outnumbered whites in Detroit, they only held 16% of the auto manufacturing jobs. In addition to this, you would expect that Black people had less education, and therefore also didn’t qualify for the higher skilled labor that white people would’ve qualified for.
It might or might not ignore non whites. I think it's possible to desire that lifestyle for all and to come close to realizing that desire.
There also are some areas where minorities, especially Black people were better off. In tact families are more important the poorer you are. Far lower rates of incarceration, which is one of the worst life outcomes. Far lower rates of obesity.
It's clear imo that we can seek to restore much of this W
Too bad there is no way of knowing how black people feel about the 50s....
But maybe your inability/difficulty to see meaningful differences between democrats and republicans is related to your inability to see if black people were better off in the 50s or now?
Ok? But this obviously does not apply to the US in the 50s and 60s that did have a large racial underclass.
Yeah, I don't think you're actually responding to what is being said, but rather a straw man version no it. If I was doing something like that I could say something like " it's strange to see supposed liberals argue for a return to the highly racist and exclusionary policies of the 50s". But that would be dishonest as you're not s
It seems like this is going far afield and I know it's getting into areas I don't know about.
I guess my central point is that the middle class lifestyle enjoyed by whites was not contingent upon racism against blacks. And it needn't be today.
Certainly, individual whites benefited from racial favoritism. But that is partly offset by the losses of keeping Blacks oppressed. If prosperity is not finite, whites benefit from black prosperity. More customers, more innovations etc. Like, think of all the money generated by black musicians. That's good for the whole country, I suspect.
If we agree that prosperity can be created and widely shared without a racial under class, I don't think there is much disagreement.
I don't really know anything about the nuances of exactly how it went down in the 50s. But if we agree on the above, then I'm not sure what the issue is.
Too bad there is no way of knowing how black people feel about the 50s....
But maybe your inability/difficulty to see meaningful differences between democrats and republicans is related to your inability to see if black people were better off in the 50s or now?
See, you try to be reasonable and get this.
Blindly support Dems no matter what or you are racist. Guess Cornell West and Adolf Reed are racist against black people.
Things like mass incarceration and crappy HC hurt whites the least and blacks the most.
I didn't say blacks were better of in the 50s. I said there are particular areas where they are, which is true. Maybe we can bring back the goo's without the bad.
The statement bolded simply means you could value the middle class lifestyle of the 50s and ignore the racism, or you could do so and acknowledge the racism.
I think a tax on unrealized capital gains is stupid and is not going to happen because it will not gain support. I think Kamala made a mistake by proposing an unrealized capital gains tax. I think going after price gouging is performative because that’s not the cause of inflation according to most economists. I think canceling student debt was a policy that should have been done through congress and not executive order. I think Biden was too slow to rescind title 8 deportation and go back to the old way of deporting. I think that Kamala Harris should probably be doing more interviews and should have done interviews sooner.
I’m sure excriture has his own criticisms of the democrats that simply are not relevant at all for most conversations about whether or not you should choose the party that you disagree with on certain issues versus the party that nominated a guy that tried to steal an election and lied about it being rigged. I also think that there’s only two candidates that can possibly win in 2024 and voting for someone that is not one of those two candidates is probably a silly decision in general, and encouraging others to do the same is probably immoral in such a consequential election.
This isn’t about caping for the democratic party, and to cast it that way is just missing the point.
Too bad there is no way of knowing how black people feel about the 50s....
But maybe your inability/difficulty to see meaningful differences between democrats and republicans is related to your inability to see if black people were better off in the 50s or now?
There are definitely areas where the black (and white) population was better off in the 50s. That's not an endorsement of Jim Crow laws. A lot of things have happened in the past 60-70 years besides the Civil Rights Act and a shift away from widespread overt racism. It depends on what you're measuring.
I'll be the first to admit that Sowell doesn't incorporate or acknowledge some significant factors, but he still makes interesting points.
Ain’t nobody gonna watch some 52 minute Thomas Sowell yap, can you name 1-2 issues where Black people were better off? My guess is he’s going to say maybe marriage rates? Can’t think of anything else. If he is going to say that I think it’s really stupid to not double the income minimums for welfare recipients if there is a married couple which I think is how Sowell is caching out the way dems supposedly contributed to Black single motherhood. So if it’s that issue then sure, but I also think that it is weird that as black single motherhood has gone up, black violent crime rate has actually been going down because it tends to be associated with other factors and hard to disaggregate from just being lower socioeconomic status in general. If you just ignore all the stuff that happened since the 90s his arguments about that used to make a lot more sense.
I think a tax on unrealized capital gains is stupid and is not going to happen because it will not gain support. I think Kamala made a mistake by proposing an unrealized capital gains tax. I think going after price gouging is performative because that’s not the cause of inflation according to most economists. I think canceling student debt was a policy that should have been done through congress and not executive order. I think Biden
I wouldn't call it price gouging but a large component of the late-stage inflation we've seen is due to how consumers developed an unusual indifference to prices during the pandemic. I call it the YOLO effect - when otherwise healthy people were faced with the prospect of mortality around them they recalibrated their consuming habits and started splurging on everything irrespective of price. Companies wisely picked up on this and aggressively increased prices above and beyond any relation to their costs.
The Hill: Trump says ‘Jewish people would have a lot to do’ with his loss ‘if that happens’
“In my opinion, the Jewish people would have a lot to do with a loss, if I’m at 40 percent,” Trump said during a campaign event at an event called “Fighting Antisemitism” and hosted by Israeli-American Republican mega-donor Miriam Adelson, at the Hyatt Regency Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C.
Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/4890188-don...
Just what Jews needed - another fabricated reason for Middle America to hate them.
oh the old Jewish conspiracy nutjobbery. What a colossal ****.
See, you try to be reasonable and get this.
Blindly support Dems no matter what or you are racist. Guess Cornell West and Adolf Reed are racist against black people.
I guess I missed the post where you were trying to be reasonable, because you're back to your old ways of extreme straw manning.
Things like mass incarceration and crappy HC hurt whites the least and blacks the most.
I didn't say blacks were better of in the 50s. I said there are particular areas where they are, which is true. Maybe we can bring back the goo's without the bad.
And overall they were much, much worse and black perceptions of the past compared to now confirm that. If you disagree with minorities perception of the pre civil rights era, you can argue that, many have.
The statement bolded simply means you could value the middle class lifestyle of the 50s and ignore the racism, or you could do so and acknowledge the racism.
Again, it really really undercuts your view of Dems as apologists and evil not worthy of support when you turn around and suddenly in almost the same breathe have enough resolution and nuance to see the good in pre civil rights America. Why does that charity and ability to pick out positives suddenly go away when we fast forward to modern times? This lack of sophistication, dearth of basic self reflection, consistency and honesty is the pillar principle in the both sides bad religion.
I wouldn't call it price gouging but a large component of the late-stage inflation we've seen is due to how consumers developed an unusual indifference to prices during the pandemic. I call it the YOLO effect - when otherwise healthy people were faced with the prospect of mortality around them they recalibrated their consuming habits and started splurging on everything irrespective of price. Companies wisely picked up on this and aggressive
The claim was that price gouging happened *for groceries* but grocery selling chains didn't have hugely increased margins
The Hill: Trump says ‘Jewish people would have a lot to do’ with his loss ‘if that happens’
“In my opinion, the Jewish people would have a lot to do with a loss, if I’m at 40 percent,” Trump said during a campaign event at an event called “Fighting Antisemitism” and hosted by Israeli-American Republican mega-donor Miriam Adelson, at the Hyatt Regency Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C.
Man those Jews...first they make Germany lose WWI, now making Trump lose 2024, what will they get up to next?!
The claim was that price gouging happened *for groceries* but grocery selling chains didn't have hugely increased margins
The claim has merit - food producers have been caught coordinating prices through a data advisory firm:
The claim has merit - food producers have been caught coordinating prices through a data advisory firm:
Don’t care, I hope meat heads pay 100x more in meat prices. Jk. (not really)
By the way, this is not price gouging, it’s anitcompetitive (antitrust) behavior. There are already laws on the book that prevent competitors from colluding to raise prices higher artificially and they don’t necessarily have anything to so with price gouging (which is essentially increasing prices beyond what is reasonable because people have no choice).
‘If I lose it’s because of the Jews’ is one hell of a take to make at an event called ‘fighting antisemitism’
The claim has merit - food producers have been caught coordinating prices through a data advisory firm:
That's a very different claim specific to producers of a sector, and that isn't called gouging rather a trust, which is already illegal if it happened as alleged, doesn't require any new law, and which the biden-harris administration DOJ has to prosecute lol.
Gouge claims where directed preponderantly to grocery chains.
If it's about something they are already doing they would have said that, mentioning the case and so on, instead of pandering generically about gouging
Agreed.
I would like to point out that the reason for this coming back up is I was showing that the left actually can criticize each other and disagree. The centrists that claim that “everyone who votes democrats is blue maga” are just coping and projecting their own partisan hackery onto us.
That's a very different claim specific to producers of a sector, and that isn't called gouging rather a trust, which is already illegal if it happened as alleged, doesn't require any new law, and which the biden-harris administration DOJ has to prosecute lol.
Gouge claims where directed preponderantly to grocery chains.
If it's about something they are already doing they would have said that, mentioning the case and so on, instead of panderin
Price gouging is a pejorative term used to refer to the practice of increasing the prices of goods, services, or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair by some. This commonly applies to price increases of basic necessities after natural disasters. Usually, this event occurs after a demand or supply shock. The term can also be used to refer to profits obtained by practices inconsistent with a competitive free market, or to windfall profits.
Source:
if you click the link he's not phrasing it that way
the context is right now 40% of jews vote for him and if 100% voted for him he'd win - which is definitely true
you also got to understand his audience there were conservative jews so he was kind of emphasizing how important they were to him in his own deranged way of attempting to form sentences
i hate the man, he should be executed for treason, but it's gross that you guys are trying to misrepresent this into something else - there's so much genuine stuff to complain about and it just undermines everything he's actually done when it's surrounded by 99% stuff like this
