Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
what strange morals you have where you’re posturing war with Russia on the side of Russia and then complain about dead children in Palestine. like I said, you are an immoral person so don’t know why you complain about anyone dying when you clearly love dead Ukranians
maybe reread what I said.
Lol at Russia being too strong. EU is simply naive and kept praying for an end to the war in the next few months. They did not commit to helping Ukraine for a war of attrition and now are over a year behind where they could be.
Biden is too risk averse. Ukraine should be given far more from USA too.
Russian drones hunt civilians, evidence suggests
Evidence of apparent drone attacks on civilians can be seen in numerous videos shared on Ukrainian and Russian social media, six of which were examined by BBC Verify.
In each video, we see through the remote operator’s camera as they track the movements of a pedestrian or motorist in civilian clothing, often dropping grenades which sometimes appear to seriously injure or kill their target.
BBC Verify was also able to identify a Telegram channel which has the earliest public copies yet seen of five of the six videos analysed.
They were each posted with goading and threats to the Ukrainian public, including claims that all vehicles were legitimate targets and that people should minimise their public movement. The injured people were also insulted, called "pigs" or in one case mocked for being a woman
and in another glimpse at the future nightmare that's arriving fast
In the last few months, says Oleksandr Prokudin, spokesman for Kherson’s military administration, the Russian military has also begun to use drones to remotely drop mines along pedestrian, car and bus routes.
He said explosions had been caused by butterfly mines - small, anti-personnel mines which can glide to the ground and detonate later on contact - which are coated with leaves to camouflage them.
The BBC has not been able to verify the use of drones to distribute mines in Kherson.
Lol at Russia being too strong. EU is simply naive and kept praying for an end to the war in the next few months. They did not commit to helping Ukraine for a war of attrition and now are over a year behind where they could be.
Biden is too risk averse. Ukraine should be given far more from USA too.
we did on the side of taking in millions of refugees with no time schedule to return (and potentially no return ever), we are paying for that since then and it's not small amounts.
we took more refugees from Ukraine in the last 2 years than the USA took refugees worldwide since 1975
and in another glimpse at the future nightmare that's arriving fast
Every weapon finds its countermeasure, and Ukraine is unfortunately a lab where we may discover how to counter cheap drone warfare -- though the Ukrainians are doing most of the groundwork for us.
We had a fair bit and mass production should have been the top priority.
This is war not a picnic
Mass production could only really apply to artillery ammunition, and probably the US and European powers should have done more in that regard. With major weapons platforms, you can't just mass-produce them. Surplus Leopard tanks have been sent in fair numbers, but haven't done all that well. Oddly enough, the small commitment of US Abrams tanks didn't do that well either. The British Challenger 2s, with just 14 committed, have done better, their long-reach firepower from dug-in positions clearly bothering the Russians according to intercepted radio calls, but Britain doesn't have shedloads to give away. They're long out of production and we're busy upgrading our stock to Challenger 3 specification. We've also given Ukraine about a third of our excellent AS90 self-propelled 155mm artillery guns, meaning we've had to buy Archer guns from Sweden to cover the gap, but we can't make more AS90s after all this time -- we're working with Germany on the RCH (Remote-Controlled Howitzer) 155 replacement vehicle, which will not necessarily need a crew.
When Zelensky visited London and spoke to Parliament, he said he wanted 'British fighter planes', but we don't have Typhoons to spare -- and they're twin-engined and quite advanced. It's more suitable for Ukraine to fly and maintain single-engined surplus F-16s, which are available and can be put in service sooner with fewer logistical complications.
There's always a ton we can't do. Lets do what we can do and we could have done more than enough. Russia was not some formidable force compared to the west.
On the AS90, it's an example of it's good then we can start making them again. Obviosuly it takes some time but it's just part of what we (the west) can do if we want. For example
The UK Ministry of Defence has found a way to resume the production of artillery barrels.
The ministry explained that British company Sheffield Forgemasters will assist with this.
Sheffield Forgemasters is capable of producing the largest and most technically complex cast and forged steel components in the world.
"This is the first step towards UK sovereign barrel production which has been developing for 20 years," the ministry said.
AS-90 howitzer
The artillery barrels will primarily be intended to support Ukraine's artillery systems. This includes the 155-mm AS-90 self-propelled howitzers and the 105-mm L119 towed howitzers.
It's about political will far more than anything else.
The Sun claims 40 "Elite" NK troops killed already in Ukraine
Instead of his traditional evening address, Zelensky published the following video.
"North Korea tested a new ballistic missile. It happened the day before. Record flight time and sufficient altitude. And the world is simply watching. Watching as this threat grows.
North Korea has learned to make artillery better. This has already happened thanks to cooperation with Moscow. It has learned to make missiles better - this is already obvious. Now, unfortunately, it will learn modern warfare.
The first thousands of soldiers from North Korea are near the Ukrainian border. Ukrainians will be forced to defend themselves from them. And the world will watch again.
We have repeatedly said that such threats cannot be given time. Russia cannot be allowed to seek and find accomplices. Any enemy of the free world cannot be given time to grow. What unites Pyongyang and Moscow? Only the desire to fight.
Now we see every site where Russia is accumulating these soldiers from North Korea on its territory - all their camps.
We could have struck preemptively if we had this opportunity - to strike at a sufficiently long range. And it depends on the partners. But instead of such a necessary long-range capability, America is watching. Britain is watching. Germany is watching. Everyone is just waiting for the North Korean military to start striking the Ukrainians.
We know all the logistics between Russia and North Korea that are helping Russian aggression, and this logistics must be blocked. It depends, among other things, on the powerful Asian states. It depends on China, which talks so much about ending the war. But it is watching. And while words are being spoken, soldiers from North Korea are heading to the front.
Everyone in the world who really wants this war between Russia and Ukraine not to expand, and for the war from Europe not to spread to other regions of the world, everyone should not just watch. They need to act. Words about the inadmissibility of escalation and expansion of the war must coincide with actions.
North Korea's participation in this war in Europe is a threat to the entire world. A threat that must be stopped."
“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”
Zelensky and Ukraine got a raw deal. another tragedy almost wholly the responsibility of the USA and the West.
nah lil z got super rich, he good
so long as hes able to get on that last plane out of Saigon. but the way hes been talking smack lately, they may just leave him for the Azov boys.
yeah, if he's smart he'll get out before he gets got. we shall see...
So we are mocking Ukranians with Russian propaganda when they post in this thread now. Real classy.
It's been this way for 2 years. This thread is a nazi conspiracy thread since there's a few posters constantly posting Kremlin propaganda. I've asked for a containment thread, to ban the posters from this thread, etc. Mods have so far have not done anything.
Every weapon finds its countermeasure, and Ukraine is unfortunately a lab where we may discover how to counter cheap drone warfare -- though the Ukrainians are doing most of the groundwork for us.
It's just at the beginning. Scratching the groundwork at most
Maybe countermeasures are always found but one hell of a lot of people can die before that happens. It can go up dramatically as we get so much better at killng people. Weve managed tens of miliions with mid 20th century tech, maybe we can hit the billion next time?
oh ya ban everyone until they all agree with you.
it wasnt particular difficult to predict that USA would not provide Ukraine what they needed to win this war. ofc, it took me like a year to realize it. Western indoctrination is very strong.
There's not a pro Russian argument I haven't engaged with, I'm obviously not doing what you're accusing me of. The problem is getting something debunked (often multiple times), then coming back and restating the Kremlin propaganda with nothing new to add, while adding absolutely nothing of worth to the thread. Read the five posts doing just that and see how much you glean from it.
is it your first debate? most people don't change their minds. Just because you feel you win the debate does not justify you to banning people who don't change their minds. lol . Honestly it would be more strange if they did. You waste your time here presumably to change 1 or two peoples minds. not everyone's. I also want to nuke victor into the atmosphere especially for his wild gazas takes but I'm not out here begging for him to be banned. how sad
Typically what happens is I move on instead of reiterating Kremlin propaganda over and over and over again without adding anything new to it. Most people do that as well. It's fine not to change your mind, what's not fine is repeating the bullshit over and over again while adding nothing new.
No one is begging, you sound like him with your ridiculous word choice.
Looking forward to where you move the goalposts this time.
yes opposing the mass murder in Gaza is indeed wild.
its funny that you defend Russian collateral damage but bring up the gaza collateral damage in every post in the other thread. anyway there's a reason I ignore that threat. I would use the same logic I downplay Russia' war crimes in this thread. Its war **** happens. Russia's actually worse in the sense they started this conflict. (current im not talking about everything)
