[WPT Global] Official Thread

It's mad isn't it. I think if they're doing this, they could easily be doing soft collusion. As far as I can see, 90 players at minimum are still on the platform after knowingly cheating other players. Those accounts need to be banned immediately and the funds confiscated.

This is so extremely unfair to the players who did not use HUDs. These accounts play with huge advantages, exploiting our information to have high wr without having to risk anything. At least let all of us use HUDs if you were not going to punish these accounts, no? In return not only were we not rewarded for complying to your rules, our rake doubles because people using HUDs are winning too much. How about our money that was stolen from the ones using HUDs, who’s responsible for this?

You are punishing honest regs for something you failed to do, a fundamental thing you swore on as a poker site, protecting players from cheaters. You are even ensuring that cheaters can keep cheating and taking others money.

They are already gone, because every agent stopped providing services for WPT and withdrawal all the players funds

Unfortunately the fact is that they are still playing.

Ok, now I remember who you are. You are the one selling HUDs and data to cheaters who got their accounts back not confiscated. And you have the audacity to come here asking to have your account back and then posting your tracking history here to support your ill argument? I highly doubt you understand what people mean explaining how small sized and inaccurate the winrate you’re sampling.

This you?
https://www.facebook.com/funnyboyvn

congrats on the new RB system WPT. Was starting a table got action from 2 brand new accounts play me HU to generate a few hands. Those accounts then proceed to sit tables I cant play. Please stop telling us how burners are not a issue. They are by far the biggest exploiters on this site along with the dude using HUD posting above showing off the WR of other players

Dunno what's more tilting to me, having 45% rakeback get taken away on 10days notice, getting offered 20% to start table heads-up with 60bb/100 effective rake or knowing i've been scammed for 1 year by 200 regs playing with huds, and the cherry on top, they still play without consequences? I'm out, peace WPT

They probably wouldn't bother sitting regs HU but now they're getting 20% rakeback, so it might make sense for two of them to sit you, while presumably colluding and getting the table when you leave. I can't know if they're colluding but if two of those burner accounts sat me, it would just seem obvious to me that this is what they are doing.

I kinda liked grinding on WPT last few couple of months. Of course there were some issues, but overall it was good place to play, even though fairy tales about maximum 2-3 good players on table and megawinrates are laughable for people who play daily on site. I was opening new tables (at the beginning it was quite easy, then it was harder and harder and last 2-3 months almost impossible) and rakeback was 50-60% of my overal winnings.

These last changes are really final spit in face for all decent regulars who were main source of traffic on the site. Instead, it rewards collusion groups with unlimited burner accounts, script users, ultimate bumhunters who will not play single hand without huge advantage and other speculators.

I am also pretty sure their chinese network partner will be very "delighted" when he sees how games look like after these changes.

Burners still get full RB of 40%, I think they're doing it to generate some stats to look less sus when sitting full ring tables. I just hate how the site keeps defending itself stating the winners are the issue while the exploiters dont gain any advantage. Is it because they have a whole database of winners stats and winr that they take these extreme measures while the exploiters/burners change acc so frequent they do not have enough info so they're not considered a threat to their ecosystem?

new very likely burner account at 25/50/100

by garnouille P

new very likely burner account at 25/50/100

another one here

Hi everyone. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed the number of brand-new 2+2 accounts joining this thread. While I do usually try to answer pretty much everything, I'm going to skip over some of the obvious trolling and disingenuous posts. Hope you understand.

It doesn't matter if you win, Fairgame is assessing how good a player you are. Your short term results don't matter.

The quote of 20bb/100 is after rake, and before rewards, and is also halved from the real value (which is in excess of 41bb) to ensure a fairer comparison (in our games, we typically have a third blind, so everything plays bigger. This is explained in more detail here: https://wptglobal.com/blog/how-does-wpt-...

We have our security team investigating these allegations as a matter of high priority. How are you defining 'pro'? Can you be sure it is the same as the way that Fairgame does?

Neither. We have accounted for this in the 20bb/100 figure.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of that number but yes, our rake is high. We can justify it because good players make much more money after rake than they do at other sites. Rake matters of course, but the most important thing is 'how much can I win playing at WPT Global each hour?' and the answer is 'a lot more than anywhere else, even though it's expensive to play there'.

We're making less of course, because we're spending far, far more per player on growth and engagement, and our players win much more than on GG.

I can't reveal too much here, however I can confirm that several hundred accounts were locked earlier this year after we discovered those players were using third-party software that was against our TOS. Some of those accounts were permanently closed and their funds seized (like the player who posted a screenshot of his tracking software here). Some of the accounts were not permanently closed and received warnings. When determining which action to take we took into account the severity of the offence, whether the player co-operated with the investigation or not, whether the player provided information that was useful in regards to the RIP program (https://wptglobal.com/rewarding-integrit...), any extenuating circumstances, and some other factors as well.

There is quite a big batch of refunds being processed at the moment, some of which relates to this investigation and some of which doesn't.

In general in Game Integrity cases there is some degree of discretion applied. We take into account the severity of the violation, the intent of the player, how co-operative they are, etc. For example, somebody who is obviously a new player and softplays their friend in an MTT might have part of their funds confiscated (to put right the harm that they caused) and receive a warning, but be able to continue playing on the understanding that their account will be permanently closed if it happens again. This is much like the justice system in real life in which we generally recognise that not all crimes are equally severe and that criminals can sometimes, but not always, be rehabilitated.

So I'm an American living in Japan for the forseeable future. Is it possible for me to kyc without having my name on a utility bill? My wife takes care of all the bills since I cannot yet read Japanese. I have a juminyo and residential card and I was able to kyc on GG poker using those.

Thanks for answering this. The problem is once fair game determines they are pro they just move onto a new account while earning 40%+ RB from affiliates, that's the issue I have with this. If you can take measures on this problem it would be a huge benefit to the community. I just want fairness if thats too much to ask for.

This should be fine. It's Proof of Address we require for KYC, not specifically a utility bill. Our team can help you if there's any issues.

Alex at some point people on the industry, you included have to understand that security of the tables should include the community of poker grinding the tables as well.

If you are on a home game with players obviously cheating and all you hear is that you should continue playing because our games are the best you will find and you make enough money anyway why do you care so much about cheating we'll take care off the cheaters you don't have to remind us every 6 months about them, honestly how would you feel about continuing in those games even tho you are making good money? I know you avoid difficult question but please answer me this one.

All i have presented on the forum are real, ongoing situation for months or one year at least that i have to navigate through as a player, i knew about players using huds but can't know for sure who so just base on what their reaction to my certain bets i have to label them. Now probably most of those players use burners as well, because you either tolerate or do not tolerate cheating in any extent of it, be clear with the rules because i feel i should have used that HUD as well when i had the chance given the punishment those guys received.

If you really trust the security of the games go ahead and risk your own money playing them and advertise it as a fair ecology after. You probably do not know the extent of cheating in different forms happening on the platform at higher stakes, grinding them daily was a mix of dodging some casual bullets and "this guy is way to much out of line". Try starting those juicy hu rakeback tables with RTA advised crushers, or burners filling the table after the fish joins. Or play a table where a whale loses 10k but somehow just some random chinese guy takes all the money and the whale folds top two pairs or even trips when you have a better hand, the smart play for me was get out of that juicy table and avoid both the whale and the chinese guy.

Ok so you accounted 20bb/100 winrate to straddle part I didn't knew that, if its 41bb/100 with not accounting straddle, then its my mistake, but still you didn't account to antes, if theres 8 players playing with antes 20bb/100 still becomes 2.5times smaller, im sure you see that in rake bb/100 but you just skip telling us rake part since it would be too big if you only divide winrate by half. Rake is not that big by the way how some of guys in this forum say, you just divide it by 2.5 if you consider straddle a big blind but so are winrates.

Alex, by pro I just mean a standard reg. I can determine fairly quickly who is who at the table. Around the time when Ghindos contributed to the previous investigation and many accounts were locked, the games at 10/20/40 were super soft all of a sudden. Maybe a week or so later new accounts started popping up until the games got worse. Could it be that these guys were just sitting on their hands waiting and when the response from WPTG was fairly lenient, they took it as a green light to push the cheating further. As I said before, cheating nowadays isn't so much random guys chancing their luck but is more often organized by groups of people treating it as a criminal business.

I worry about these burner accounts colluding. It does look like they are coming from the same group and the non obvious collusion can have a detrimental effect on winrates. App games years ago were super soft and collusion killed them very quickly. Also ignition more recently. I'm supportive of WPTG and want you guys to take business from Stars/GG but the security has to be improved.

**** you where getting 40%??? My afíliate was killing me haga

It's pure speculation from my part on this, but i have to agree that my investigation might have trigger a much more agressive response from the cheaters, that is what i experienced as well, and this is the reason why i am pushing Alex to solve the integrity and security of the games, by disclosing some concerning behaviour from both players and WPTG staff.

Another speculation would be that they got inside information about the rake cut and saw it like a last chance to push the pedal to the max and extract most value from the regulars, as they expected a lot of us to leave the platform , my experience as well was that cheating got to whole new level , most tables at 10/20/40 and above that i was able to play i had huge red flags on a lot of players. For example i counted 12 accounts of a player or a group of players folding every hand at a lower stake and entering the tables with VPIP 5 PFR 4 and playing overly agressive at 10/20/40 in just 2 days, security team has the accounts IDs alex i am curious if they find anything wrong in that behaviour. I also sent around 20-30 burner accounts.

I look forward to disclose more and more private information until we can get to a common ground of trust and fairness in the games as you claim you want Alex.

thank you for what you are doing, we actually play the same stakes and saw a lot of them recently. i wont reveal how i spot them cause i know they are reading this thread.

i aswell saw new accounts with tight stats all of the sudden play more hands and play their real game. they just trying to maximise their winnings out of every new account they create.

yeah this is getting quite bad...

I mean they are cheating in many ways, faking stats, using hud, burning accounts and card sharing, Its like for example Im well aware of the exploits that Im implementing and how I can get countered and after some samples I can detect someone who is using the hud because he is countering me in a very clear way that he is no playing against anyone else and its quite dificult to detect my "leak" if they dont have a hud, but if you mix that with burning accounts Im probably getting counter exploited by a lot of players without any chance for me to figure it out... and I can see this is happening more lately but at the same time I need to decide if I have to play a bit more balanced to not get exploitated by this new accounts or keep my exploits against other players... this is just a nightmare scenario right now.

I remember when the app games started to boom with plo5 I was winning at very good win rates but a some point this cheating rings started to appear and I decided to quit the game early because I wasnt sharp enough on that game to be able to understand how much damage those cheating rings could create and we where playing really expensive, I adviced some friends to also quit but they rolled the dice and kept playing... they where succesful for some time but at the end they got rekt for 6 figures because they kept playing as dogs without noticing for to long...

We can see on ignition that this already happened, when cheating becomes rampant you need to have some idea on how you can handle it or you need to quit...

Im not going to share exactly why think WPTG was a "safe" because as you already know cheaters are reading this forum but its not because of the fair game system or whatever, its just because some forms of cheating where more dificult because of the structure of the games.

For play NL25 ame NL50 is a bad site? I read too many bad things LOL

top regs in upswing = need to cut rewards because they win too much!, regs not in upswing = we don't care.

I made 10k rake in July and planned to make 15k in August, but now it's a lottery game will the variance allow me to beat the rake, no thanks. 0 rake in august, but cheaters and bots will continue to play, GJ GJ.