Moderation Questions
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.
This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.
Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.
Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.
So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.
Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.
So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.
We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.
Thanks.
And post reports. Is there another way to describe them? Are you trying to actually add something to the discussion but dont want to directly say it? If so, by all means say it. But this post just illustrates the type of no content posts that-clog up the mod thread.
I'm saying that it's impossible for posters to judge whether you really have the support you claim for your draconian moderation policies that's now seen extended bans for victor and d2 for really not very much, if anything at all.
I am not going to keep going back and forth about the same thing, as it is obviously not a fruitful use of time for either of us. Ultimately, you are the moderator, so you can do whatever you want. If the rest of us don't like it, we can just stop posting and make this awful moderation job easier for you.
So it doesnt appear to me that organic discussion or banter is being cut off any where but the mod thread.
There are two possibilities: You can either be right with everybody else being wrong, or you can be wrong and everybody else is raising valid complaints. The ones that are the loudest about those complaints happen to be the posters that have been here the longest. Who do you think is more likely to be correct in this scenario?
You may not realize it, but you have absolutely put a massive damper on discussion in this forum. It isn't even just banter. There are moderation issues that get brought up in this thread which you still delete. If you take a moderation action and then people start discussing that action, you delete those posts as well. When Victor was banned recently, there were a few posts made in response, which you deleted with "This thread is only for things that require a mod response, not general discussions about Victor or any other poster." Seeing as there was nowhere else to discuss the issue of Victor's two week banning or opinions as to why Victor felt the need to post as he did, that discussion was instantly and unilaterally terminated forever. That not only stifles discussion which might very well be interesting, but it creates a chilling effect. After all, why would we waste hours of our time posting when you are going to delete half our posts anyway. Moreso, as we have seen over the last few weeks, there is the possibility you are going to ban a poster for a stretch for completely arbitrary reasons, so why take the chance? You banned d2 for a week for teasing you, and you banned Luckbox for something similar a few weeks ago, so we all know you are capable.
You weren't even moderating this way before you took your hiatus. Why you made this 180 is a complete mystery.
Anyway, that's all I have to say about this, as I have repeated this ad nauseam since you came back. On behalf of everybody on this forum, let me say how sorry we are that your brother-in-law forced you to take on the moderation duties here. We can tell it has been really taxing on you.
Donk, I doubt you are a actually a lawyer.
as anyone can see d2 did a suicide by cop here, like he always does, bc he always does it.
You on the other hand do not see that, which leads my to believe that you are either a fraud or a you fell on your head.
you browser, dont let them bully you, thats all they like to do.
Washoe, I don't agree with you, but I do happily accept your comment as part of the banter that is an essential part of our community 😀
I am not going to keep going back and forth about the same thing, as it is obviously not a fruitful use of time for either of us. Ultimately, you are the moderator, so you can do whatever you want. If the rest of us don't like it, we can just stop posting and make this awful moderation job easier for you.
There are two possibilities: You can either be right with everybody else being wrong, or you can be wrong and everybody else is raising
You're correct that we are talking past each other now and can't make each other see the others perspective. So Ill also end our back and forth with this post, and a couple of final points.
It's great that you were voted by the entire group to speak for them on their behalf. You speak with such confidence that your expressed opinion represents everyone in the forum that the vote must have been a landslide.
And here is one of your posts about Victor that I deleted from this thread. Why you think it is appropriate to publicly psychoanalyze another poster by name, esp when he can't respond at the time, is beyond me. Why you think it belongs in the mod thread is even stranger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
I said he needs to more carefully differentiate between Jews and Israelis when discussing these issues because conflating the two led to some pretty concerning interpretations of his posts. He acknowledged that and said he would do better.
I relate to Victor’s horror at so many children and babies being murdered by governments and militaries. People should be absolutely losing their minds over that.
You are giving Victor way too much credit. He sees an issue where he can justify his ever-growing anger and frustration at the world, and uses that to lash out at people. There are few other times that one can spew the kind of hatred that he regularly does without being instabanned. If he cared about "murdered babies", he would not be an apologist for mass murderers in so many threads before Oct 7, 2023. His MO is transparent and is the biggest reason that people are so angry with him in the last few months.
I honestly hope that Victor is using this time constructively, rather than just stewing without his normal outlet for catharsis. I cannot be the only one that has noticed Victor's increasing anger in the last couple of years. I know he is going to read this and immediately go on the offensive. I feel like one must have some serious issues with anger at oneself in order to be so angry at everybody else. I have felt similarly when I was young, and I can tell you that when I angrily lashed out at people in my life, the main reason was because I was not happy myself.
When you read this, Victor, I honestly hope you are happy and are able to perhaps make some more positive posts. You get made fun of in this forum, but we all take our licks around here from time to time. I know most people appreciate having you around. I look forward to reading your posts again
It was a secret ballot!
I am confused. Did you delete those posts because they were in the mod thread or because they were against the rules? Is psychoanalysis prohibited as well? Would those posts have been okay if they were made two weeks later, when they were no longer relevant?
I'm happy that you put the posts back up, at least in a roundabout way. That's a start!
I like to go through the old mod threads all the time exactly because of that. A lot of the most memorable and entertaining posts were in the old mod thread, were way off-topic, and WERE NOT DELETED.
Reading Lozen's reply above, I think there are probably two camps within this forum:
(1) People that only really participate in this forum to talk politics and tend to avoid (or at least want to avoid) the general drama between users. I don'
I truly can't imagine why anyone would want to be in group 2. A "community" who constantly abuses each other? I can't think of a worse type of community.
I truly can't imagine why anyone would want to be in group 2. A "community" who constantly abuses each other? I can't think of a worse type of community.
chill, I feel like I may have communicated my point in a not so elegant manner, as I can see why you would say that based on what I wrote. This isn't a community because we abuse each other. This is a community because we are discussing various topics and have been brought together to this forum through similar interests. I am sure that almost everybody made an account on this site because they were interested in poker strategy and found that it is a place with a lot of like-minded and mostly intelligent people with interesting perspectives. That is certainly why I stuck around here, and I am sure most others did as well. When you have a community that has existed for twenty years, a big part of the draw with that community is that you get to know the posters, which allows you to engage with them on a personal level. Every once in a while, posters may needle each other, especially in a forum devoted to politics, but that is something that people that are closer-knit will occasionally do. Compare that to the Reddit politics sub, and you will readily see the difference between a posting community and a place where you can just anonymously discuss politics.
I know you understand what I am getting at, as you have over 20,000 posts on 2p2. In those posts, you have made fun of people and been the subject of fun. As you have doubtlessly spent thousands of hours on these forums, I hope you are able to see what I mean about this place being a community, and not just a place to discuss Trump, Biden, guns, and trans issues.
lol
d2 got banned for a total of ten thousand times already for "insults" btw. so he has a long track record for this type of nonsense.
Thinking that grown ups in a shared space can't take a few silly insults thrown back and forwards now and then is what leads to the moderation urge to clamp down too strictly, resulting in the messes we've seen here with previous moderation and on other politics forums, and now here, with bad outcomes for everyone.
The fact that browser rolled in here on his fancy horse and immediately banned "FYP" posts should've told you all exactly how this was gonna turn out.
"Editing someone's post and quoting it in a FYP might give subsequent readers the wrong impression"
Where'd they find this guy?
Damn, D2 got the equivalent of some time in the hockey penalty box. He will be back in a week. If you guys need tissues, rickroll and lozen have some.
The fact that browser rolled in here on his fancy horse and immediately banned "FYP" posts should've told you all exactly how this was gonna turn out.
"Editing someone's post and quoting it in a FYP might give subsequent readers the wrong impression"
Where'd they find this guy?
Actually, that idea came after two posters complained that other posters had quoted their posts, with edits that significantly changed their meaning, without the usual bolding of the changed part indicating what in the post had been changed. They expressed concern that future readers may see the edited post quoted and others think they actually said that.
Interestingly though, I reversed that policy almost immediately after feedback. So it's actually another example of me listening to poster feedback and being willing to undo something because of it, which I was just accused of never doing.
Thanks for surfacing that. As to where they found me, it certainly wasnt in the politics forum because apparently no one in the community was willing to volunteer to be a moderator and keep the forum alive despite how much it means to them and how little time and effort they think it takes to be a mod. So those who like to make abig deal about how I came from outside the forum always forget to mention that no one from inside the forum was willing to step up. It seems lots of people love to play a mod in the mod thread but no one wants to be a mod.
As to where they found me, it certainly wasnt in the politics forum because apparently no one in the community was willing to volunteer to be a moderator and keep the forum alive despite how much it means to them and how little time and effort they think it takes to be a mod.
Is this actually true? When tame_deuces stepped down I don't think I ever saw any sort of general call for moderators on this forum. There was such a call when you stepped down to care for your wife, and Rococo and gangstaman stepped up then. That might not make much of a difference, it's a pretty thankless job and few regular posters regardless so the list of people willing is always gone to be small-to-zero.
Why would you answer to a post from D2 when you just banned him and know he can't respond? Doesn't strike me as impartial or impersonal and your actually banning him for a week is extremely heavy handed and way offside.
I actually responded before I banned him. Banning someone requires logging into a different part of the site and takes a few minutes, then getting to the user notes page and posting the mod note.
As Ive mentioned before, mod decisions,like length of ban are made taking previous mod actions into account. In this case D2 had received multiple warnings and a previous 3 day ban for insulting people. So he was a repeat offender. A poster with no previous incidents would have received a warning for the same post as a first offense.
I volunteer as tribute.
Is this actually true? When tame_deuces stepped down I don't think I ever saw any sort of general call for moderators on this forum. There was such a call when you stepped down to care for your wife, and Rococo and gangstaman stepped up then. That might not make much of a difference, it's a pretty thankless job and few regular posters regardless so the list of people willing is always gone to be small-to-zero.
Yes, it's true. Many forum posters, including yourself, posted after this post discussing the potential demise of the forum. The need for a mod was no secret.
Old 12-04-2022, 07:31 PM #4537
tame_deuces
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Re: The Moderation Discussion Thread (And I hear him every night, On every street)
Due to outside factors, I have real life obligations that eats up a lot of free time, many weekends and leaves me unable to log on here for extended time periods. So my time here is extremely limited, especially in some periods.
I can only encourage people to use the report tool if they see problematic posts. I noted that posts on Islam. I though the forum handled it well and many good replies was written, it did not generate many reports.
I stay on here since I am the only moderator left, no other moderators from other forums are willing to step in and what I would consider viable candidates from the forum have said no or have limited time (either via PM or publicly).
This current effort is seemingly not enough, and I will notify the powers-that-be about that.
Actually, that idea came after two posters complained that other posters had quoted their posts, with edits that significantly changed their meaning, without the usual bolding of the changed part indicating what in the post had been changed. They expressed concern that future readers may see the edited post quoted and others think they actually said that.
Interestingly though, I reversed that policy almost immediately after feedback. So it'
we've always had a policy that changing the quoted material without a fyp type comment was wrong, but never had a "must bold the specific parts which were changed" because then it loses all comedic value because you're explaining the joke as it is told - which is dumb
lol yeah. If any reg in decent standing is genuinely offended on a personal level by a post that should really point of out publicly. I don’t think too many trust that all the mods are responding to reports in an honest fashion and not trying to impose their own wild judgment and falling back on PMs and reports when needed.
This place is a small reg forum of 40+ somethings that doesn't need much moderation other than banning troll accounts and temping/pming over the line posts.
I assume that while roc isn't technically a mod, he still removes obvious over the line spam/garbage posts if he sees them?
I'd be willing to do just that if you are short in that department but I'm not doing much else.
