Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
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1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
I dont admire Putin. dont know much about Assad. and yes I think Xi is by far the best of the bunch in terms of superpower countries. I am sure he is as ruthless as anyone but I dont see him doing genocide or imperialism with bombs.
Yeah you do, you've done nothing but defend him on the Ukraine thread like a good little apparatchik.😆 Still denying the Uigher genocide I see. 😆
Lol tf you babbling about
Me and others want peace. Want Israel to give up most of west bank after hamas surrenders. Wants hamas to surrender
The antisemites want to call Israel murderers and have no interest in peace
Maybe because Jews have no heroes that genocided entire tribes out of existence, so no respect.
Might draw your attention to Saul's (supposed) extermination of the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15. Samuel, who anointed Saul king, tells him that the Lord says, 'Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, camel and sheep, oxen and ass.' (Verse 3) Oddly enough Saul, having raised an army of 210,000, disobeys the Lord by sparing the livestock, though he totally massacres the humans: 'And Saul defeated the Amalekites, from Havilah as far as Shur, which is east of Egypt. And he took Agag, king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed the people with the edge of the sword. But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep and of the oxen and of the fatlings, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them; all that was despised and worthless they utterly destroyed.' (Verses 7-9)
Now, this is all made up. There's no real historical record of Amalek. As Ira Gershwin remarked (and I always hear the words in Paul Robeson's voice from my mother's old record collection), 'The things that you're liable to read in the Bible, It ain't necessarily so.' But it is believed, to an extent, among Jews, and was referenced a couple of months ago by Benjamin Netanyahu to justify the attack on Gaza.
Might draw your attention to Saul's (supposed) extermination of the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15. Samuel, who anointed Saul king, tells him that the Lord says, 'Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, camel and sheep, oxen and ass.' (Verse 3) Oddly enough Saul, having raised an army of 210,000, disobeys the Lord by sparing the livestock, though he to
If it happened it was 3000 years ago
Israel is in a war, antisemitism is on the rise, it's all a coincidence!!
Maybe because Jews have no heroes that genocided entire tribes out of existence
Also, holy hell what an absurd lie; we could spend all day going over the mass killings committed by David and Moses in the Old Testament and the peoples that have vanished. I could easily play the same game and paint modern-day Jews with the same kind of fanatical rhetoric that Kelhus uses to describe Muslims (I’d get banned for that, ofc).
is that the Hebrew word for Ghetto? like is this a proper translation and is that the same word they use to describe, for instance, the confined area in Warsaw in the 40s?
hearing reports that the hamas guy who stated that oct 7 was just a rehearsal for the main event may be in a spot of bother 😀
Maybe because Jews have no heroes that genocided entire tribes out of existence, so no respect. You want respect in this world, you have to earn it through the sword. That is the brutal truth. Muhammad and Ghengis Khan are 2 revered leaders, both in their time and for eternity, who did this on multiple occasions.
lol you are so clowny.
Chapter 1 Samuel 27:8 and 9
Now David and his men went up and raided the Geshurites, the Girzites and the Amalekites. (From ancient times these peoples had lived in the land extending to Shur and Egypt.) Whenever David attacked an area, he did not leave a man or woman alive, but took sheep and cattle, donkeys and camels, and clothes. Then he returned to Achish.
2000+ years of exile and the Jews finally get a chance to become a real nation, and they are too weak to do what is necessary to make it work and force peace on their terms. Too much compassion and weakness. No one respects that.
Assad, Putin and Xi (heck, even Bin Laden and al-Baghdad) are respected much more than any Israeli leader ever has or ever will be. The last 2 failed, but they at least had the will to do what was necessary.
When the Arab countries threw out all their Jews, who lived there peacefully for 1,000+ years and didn't even do anything, they just peacefully left. No one respects that, so no one cared.
The Paestinians are undertaking a generational struggle, refusing to accept defeat, and being absolutely brutal on their end when they occasional get in a position of strength (see 10/7) and they are revered. On 10/7 all around the world Muslims ran into the streets celebrating. That is what the world respects. No one celebrates people who just peacefully pack up and leave, and cant even do what it takes to decolonize and retake their land after 2,000+ years of exile. They despise such weakness.
If someone was like this was on my "side" in a debate I would rethink everything.
Dunyain said Jews have no heroes that committed mass killings so thats why they get no respect unlike Muhammad and the Muslims. This comment alone is insane.
We show Dunyain Jewish heroes that did commit mass killings just to prove his logic is 100% twisted and incorrect.
You go defend it by saying it was 3000 years ago.
Can you even logically follow a conversation?
It doesn't count because it happened 3000 years ago. Also, some book of fables said Jews lived here 3000 years ago so they get to genocide the indigenous population.
I've assumed far less and been blasted for it. I've even quoted people directly and been blasted for assuming it was actual English and not their own version of their language. I'll let him speak for himself.
Are you familiar with the Jews of Banu Qurayza?
They actually sided with a certain great Muslim general in the 6th Century during his wars of conquest. However, the great general deemed they were not supportive enough (and may have been playing both sides, there is some controversy here) and as punishment he had all the men of the tribe executed, and the women and children sold into slavery. Complete and utter genocide. This great general
I had not heard of that person for, thanks for explaining. I don't think that what was acceptable in the 6th century is necessarily applicable today. Looking purely at practicality and not morality: the resulting backlash for such an action would be far great than the benefit, making this suggestion very unrealistic imo (assuming people could even get past the moral aspect).
I don't think there is any real answer which is why this is such a mess. No one wants a 2 state solution and no one is willing to consider alternatives.
I had not heard of that person for, thanks for explaining. I don't think that what was acceptable in the 6th century is necessarily applicable today. Looking purely at practicality and not morality: the resulting backlash for such an action would be far great than the benefit, making this suggestion very unrealistic imo (assuming people could even get past the moral aspect).
I don't think there is any real answer which is why this is such a
I doubt there is a single belligerent thing the Palestinians could do to the Jews that would be a moral bridge too far. Probably the only morally unacceptable action they could undertake at this point is give up the fight and sue for peace. The Muslim world and Western far left has so much emotional investment in the cause of Palestinian triumph "From the river to the sea" anything less would be majorly disappointing.
I am guessing Israel could reach a moral line they wouldn't cross, but I dont think we are close to it. So I dont think the moral aspect is really a factor, except at the practical level where both sides would lose outside support (in the Palestinian case if they dont continue the fight and in Israel's case if they take the fight too far).
Before the Infintadas it seems there was a world where Israel (but not the PLO) would have accepted a 2 state solution, but that was a while ago. But yeah, we live in this bizarro world where a 2 state solution is a complete non starter for both sides, and has been for awhile, but neoliberals refuse to update their software and move past this, and deal with the reality of the situation as it is.
Dunyain said Jews have no heroes that committed mass killings so thats why they get no respect unlike Muhammad and the Muslims. This comment alone is insane.
We show Dunyain Jewish heroes that did commit mass killings just to prove his logic is 100% twisted and incorrect.
You go defend it by saying it was 3000 years ago.
Fair enough. That pull was well beyond my Old Testament knowledge. Even though the events depicted are widely agreed to mostly likely be fictional, David seems to be almost as popular a historical figure to the Jews as Muhammad to the Muslims. Maybe the Jews just need to lean into their own mythology as conquering heroes more, and they will gain some more street credit.
I doubt there is a single belligerent thing the Palestinians could do to the Jews that would be a moral bridge too far. Probably the only morally unacceptable action they could undertake at this point is give up the fight and sue for peace. The Muslim world and Western far left has so much emotional investment in the cause of Palestinian triumph "From the river to the sea" anything less would be majorly disappointing.
I am guessing Israe
I dont think you are paying attention. Neoliberals are at the same place as you. They just lie about it while going about the genocide and ethnic cleansing relentlessly.
I dont think you are paying attention. Neoliberals are at the same place as you. They just lie about it while going about the genocide and ethnic cleansing relentlessly.
I dont view liberalism as a dirty thing like you do. Neoliberal political philosophy is clearly far superior to anything coming out of the axis of evil of Russia, Iran and co-conspirators. I just wish neoliberals would update their "2 state solution" software, and of course drop all the woke ****.
Perpetual black second for the meshuggah.
I did read an interesting article on X that argued the majority of young Iranians dont actively practice Islam or go to mosque. Maybe this is why the current Iranian regime (many of whom make Biden look like a young spry buck in comparison) seem so eager to try to start a Holy War with Israel and the US, because in 15 years no one on their side will even want to.
And maybe this explains the Biden regimes reticence to escalate the conflict more than necessary. Maybe they view it as a waiting game, where time is on their side. Obviously not Joe Biden himself, but his side at least.
I dont view liberalism as a dirty thing like you do. Neoliberal political philosophy is clearly far superior to anything coming out of the axis of evil of Russia, Iran and co-conspirators. I just wish neoliberals would update their "2 state solution" software, and of course drop all the woke ****.
They are lying. They are playing the game better than you. You guys want the same thing.
I think you will eventually have your moment of clarity like the guy at the end of Clockwork Orange that realizes where the real power lies.
