The costs of trans visibility

I’m not a psychiatrist, but I’m assuming nutter is a medical term? Certainly you would not be mocking a person who is/was suffering.

I did, but at the same time I said that you didn't prove it to me. Since then you have stated multiple times that I had confirmed you were a doctor, which is very much not what I said. So, no backpedaling.

Well, that sounds like it was a terrible mistake on your point, especially as you seem to imply that you really weren't an athlete. If even educated intelligent adults can make such mistakes, I really don't think we should be allowing minors to do similar things which they may regret later.

I don't regret it. Your point seems to rely on that, so it poofs away in a mist.

I'm looking right now at my right leg and I'm pretty happy with it

Hmm, well maybe I don't know what you meant by a "sense of self". I don't feel like I have one, but I certainly can distinguish between the body that I (mostly) control and the bodies of others (or inanimate objects).

However, I definitely have no sense/identity of being a man. I have no idea what it feels like to be a man (or a woman). I don't feel like either, I just feel like myself.
Maybe this means I am non-binary?

HPD. That is still a thing, right gangsta?

That is my working diagnosis

That generally means that you are the default. I have a sinking feeling that we've already covered this.

What is the default?

Should the people who never introspect even be considered alive? Good example right here.

I am. I am literally the default emoji

To be fair, most people are like this. It’s a problem.

Hmm, ok, that's certainly good for you. If you had known before that there was no possibility of you being an athlete (professional, or whatever you thought you could be), do you think you still would have wanted to go through all that?

Do you agree that there are a significant number of people who underwent various sex/gender changing treatments who later regretted it?

Just another thing to consider. I live in Portland, Oregon, which is widely known as being the place to be "weird", has more strip clubs per capita than any other major city, Oregon has a higher percentage LGBTQ residents than any other state. There are marijuana stores everywhere, and drug possession of all kinds has been decriminalized. Basically it's at least one of the most liberal, anything-goes jurisdiction in the country. I interact with trans adults the majority of times I leave the house. I have no problem with any of these things; I moved to Portland voluntarily as an adult, knowing the character of the city.

However, Oregon does no allow minors to have their genitals or nipples pierced, even if they have the consent of their parents. That kind of thing is pretty serious body modification, and is where Oregon decided to draw the line (for minors). I think actually getting your genitals and/or breasts removed/replaced is certainly a bigger deal than getting them pierced, and this seems unarguably true. While this is arguable, I also believe taking drugs or hormones to stop/delay/change the results of puberty is also a bigger deal than getting one's genitals or nipples pierced. It makes no sense to me that children (even with parental/medical consent) should be allowed to do something this serious to their bodies.

I'm not in any way a cultural conservative, and I am as anti-religious as one can be. All my concerns and beliefs in this matter are based on protecting the well-being of children. I understand that some people who are also concerned about the well-being of children have very different views on this subject than I do, and that's fine. But surely they (you) must admit that allowing children to undergo any type of gender reassignment does not really fit with the medical and legal traditions of the country (nor any country that I know of). You can see the contradiction in my example of laws regarding piercings. Of course medicine and law changes, and rightfully so. But this has not been something gradual, or even something generally accepted by the majority of the populace. It seems to have been pushed by a certain small segment of the population for reasons other than the well-being of children. While I can't read their minds, I think the most likely reason is they want to increase the numbers of trans people as rapidly as possible in order to further the general societal acceptance of trans individuals. I even agree with their goal here, but I think that trying to get as many children as possible to identify as trans is not a good means to that end.

Actually I told you I didn't understand what you meant by "the default" but you didn't clarify.

He likely means the so-called-cis-people but I was confused too.

But if that's the case then I think it's a tricky spot (theoretically) where only trans have a sense of gender.

But perhaps there are some others here who do feel their gender and they can enlighten me and Chill and anyone else confused on what it feels like.

It’s to your benefit if you don’t have a strong gender identity.

It’s a problem to not have a sense of self.

I bet feeling gender is like when women see all the guys breezing through the line to pee and they are still standing in line about to pee their pants. I bet it really upsets them. I think Freud talks about this.

If I'm missing out on a fundamental aspect of human experience then I'd like to figure out what it is so that I can experience it.

Thanks; that was one of the two possibilities I thought you may have meant, but I wasn't certain.

While I get what you mean, that seems to imply that no one has a sense of "maleness" (as males are generally the "default" favored segment of society).

It also seems to imply that one's sense of self is not really innate, but learned, based on one's position in society. That females develop their sense of "femaleness" because they are not part of the favored majority.

While neither of these are self-contradictory (and may very well be true), they certainly don't fit with the way trans people are described as feeling. For example, if someone is born into the favored (gender) majority, as male, and for his formative years of life is treated as a member of the favored group, how could that person possibly feel that he is not truly a male? I think it's more likely that he just doesn't identify with the societal roles generally assigned to men, and believes he could more likely fit in with the roles society generally offers to women.

And on the other side, if someone born female is treated as part of the non-favored group (likely experiencing some sexual discrimination, fear, etc), how could that person feel they are 'really' a man? She definitely doesn't know what it feels like to be part of the favored gender group. It seems more likely to me that she may just feel that she doesn't like being part of the non-favored group (a very reasonable feeling), which in turn may lead to the desire to become a man.

Not sure. My imagination isn't all that great. I'm happy with the results.

Not sure. I think in percentages almost entirely and the research at this point isn't entirely a slam dunk either way.

That is weird. I live in Las Vegas (a far more liberal place) in a poor area and have said "hi" to a neighbor around once every couple months. Why are you interacting with all these trans people?

Also, your state is a pain in the ass as far as random regulation goes. I've had to spend a lot of money getting the sign off of an engineer there because my product has specifications stronger than what UL requires but doesn't have the correct sticker.

Can you get your penis removed and then pierced and mounted into a nice frame to hang in your hunting cabin?

State laws are weird.

Actually attempting to address your point, it doesn't matter what you think is sensible. You are very much not qualified as you aren't the patient or the doctors.

Ummmm. That went off the rails towards the end.

There is no conspiracy on either side of the debate. There are conspiracy theories, but they are all just silly

Everything you have derived meaning from up to this point in your life will incrementally lose meaning from this point forward. Even more, any other easily accessible source of meaning will be short lasting. This is the status quo unless you intervene, and it’s impossible to intervene in your life in any meaningful way without self awareness.

Most people just white knuckle their way on the ride, lying to themselves and others. I don’t recommend this.

I interact with lots of trans people because there are a ton of them in Portland (seriously) and because the majority of times I leave the house it is to go to a live music show. In live music audiences in Portland, cishet people are not much of a majority, if at all, and close to half of the local bands I see have at least one trans/non-binary member. An even larger number of band members and live music fans are LGB. You'd be hard pressed to find many bands in Portland consisting only of straight males. My favorite local band is led by a trans woman with whom I am friendly. Roselit Bone, who play punk gothic country ranchera rock. Check them out, they're amazing! https://www.roselitbone.com/

I have lived in Las Vegas as well. It's nowhere near as liberal as Portland. There are actually Republicans who live in Las Vegas! The only cities on the same level as Portland are San Francisco and Seattle, and I don't think either has as large a percentage of trans people as Portland.

State laws are indeed weird, but pretty much all states are at least as restrictive as Oregon in terms of piercings for minors.

Correct, I am not a doctor or patient (or even a parent or guardian), so I should not be involved in individual decisions. However, I definitely have a right to be involved in determining what is legal as far as medical treatments go. And it's pretty easy for me to determine it is not sensible that a young person could get his penis removed but could not get it pierced.

I don't believe there is any "conspiracy" in the behavior I mentioned. I don't think there is a "trans committee" having secret meetings about how to get more children to become trans. I simply think that individual trans people have biases (as does everyone), and one bias is towards wanting to be part of a larger and more powerful group of society. This leads them (individually, not as a conspiratorial group) to support policies that are likely to increase the number of people who identify as trans.

Seems a bit doubtful. Your take is that humans as they get older eventually become nihilists?

We used to treat people with psychological disorders with non-reversible experimental medical procedures. These were highly successful in treating the disorder. Moniz even won the Nobel prize for his ground breaking research.

However, we now realise lobotomies are ethically bankrupt.

It will be interesting to see how history passes judgement on gender ideologues who performed experimental procedures on children with mental disorders.

well stated and echoing what you said, 100% of the trans i know are people i met in the usa were at live music venues as well

but the main thing is we get people manipulating stuff like that fabled 1.7% of people are intersex nonsense in order to elevate the movement into seeming to be a bigger thing than it really is