The costs of trans visibility

The cases you cite are some of the most egregious spy cases in the history of the US, with information being passed for years and in some cases decades. The amount of harm caused by those individuals in orders of magnitude greater than the leaks of info by Manning. While they were all convicted under the provisions of the Espionage Act does not mean that they were all convicted of the same thing or the same counts. Mannings sentence was over 10 times greater than any previous case of a leaker leaking classified info to the press.

While a president could theoretically pardon someone before indictment or conviction, it has rarely, if ever been done in recent years, as far as I know. And as I stated, Manning wasnt pardoned.

Manning was arrested in 2010, and convicted in 2013. While he requested he be allowed to transition in a letter made public after his conviction, the government had been aware of his transgender status for years by then. And Obama didnt commute the sentence until 2017, over 3 years after Manning was imprisoned and it was publicly announced that he wanted to transition. So the entire premise that Manning was "pardoned after coming out and isnt that timing suspicious" is just unsupported speculation.

I would think you could do a whole lot of more damage to the security in modern times with access to all data and the internet and a site called wiki leaks than 30 years ago.

Minor FYI, when referring to a trans person's past we should still generally refer to them using their CURRENT pronouns. So "she requested to be allowed to transition" etc.

I know that is the current convention, but it is dumb.

I have created a thread for the discussion of transgender persons participation in sports and gaming and moved the posts itt on that topic to the new thread. Please continue that discussion over there.

Thanks

Perhaps. Though a government study a year after Mannings leaks determined that while the disclosures were embarrassing, there was little actual harm done.

I dont know whats supposed to be so different between assange and manning. manning is the one that put assange on the map:

"She decided to make all these files public, as she wrote at the time, in the hope that they would incite “worldwide discussion, debates and reforms.” WikiLeaks disclosed them — working with traditional news organizations including The New York Times — bringing notoriety to the group and its founder, Julian Assange."
"She decided to make all these files public, as she wrote at the time, in the hope that they would incite “worldwide discussion, debates and reforms.” WikiLeaks disclosed them — working with traditional news organizations including The New York Times — bringing notoriety to the group and its founder, Julian Assange."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/po...

there isnt really a difference between pardon and commuting. I cant find one. If there is one pls elaborate.

The NYT seems to make no differnce either:

"At the same time that Mr. Obama commuted the sentence of Ms. Manning, a low-ranking enlisted soldier at the time of her leaks, he also pardoned James E. Cartwright, the retired Marine general and former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff...."

you didnt actually make any attempt at all to find the difference between a pardon and a commutation, did you? Or does your internet provider block you from access to Google? Here is the very first search result:

"Commutation. A pardon and a commutation result in a reduction of punishment, but there is a distinction between the two. The difference between pardon and commutation is that a pardon relieves an individual of all guilt for the crime committed, while a commutation reduces the sentence without exonerating the person."

I'm aware that he was not pardoned but commuted and I don't think Brad had his sentence reduced because of his mental affliction, I'm just saying, regardless of the damage done to the nation, he received a pretty normal sentence for an espionage conviction. I think you're terribly wrong to act as if the information he released did not do damage to this great nation. It most certainly did.

You're right, he did ask the Army to discharge him because he was mentally ill. However, you don't release sensitive classified information because you're unhappy you didn't get your way. That's not an excuse for betraying ones country.

You refer to them as you wish, and I will continue to refer to them how I perceive them. Thank you.

oh ok thanks browser!
that explains it... now Im expecting the same at assanges case, a commutation once he served 6 or something years.
I wonder if trump or whoever it will be will follow suit or if this was just a one time thing, bc obama is cool. if everthing goes fairly, thats what people expect. youre right about assange he is still in london at the moment.

Pardon erases the conviction altogether. It's like getting a record expunged. Commuted means the conviction still stands, only the sentence is reduced.

yea I get that now. obama was leaning far enough out of the window already with that one. that was probably the first and only time someone did anything like it. he used the more toned down version of getting them out. although that was good enough. manning doesnt need VA anyways now. one book, all set.

Yes, I'm sure enough woke people bought his book to keep financially comfortable for a long time.

why is it dumb? You are referring to her past today, when she is a woman. Even saying “his past” is just super awkward ignoring the disrespectful angle.

Trump pardoned a sailor named Kristian Saucier after he was convicted for taking prohibited photos of classified areas of the nuclear submarine he was stationed on. But he isnt transgender. So how can that possibly be explained? Is it possible that whether someone is transgender or not has nothing to do with whether a president pardons you or commutes your sentence?

In the 100 something pages of this thread, I think we've established, Mr. Manning is not a woman. He's a man. He may dress like a woman and even had some medical interventions that cause him to resemble a woman, but he is not, has never been, nor ever will be a man. I'm sorry if this hurts your feels, but it's just reality.

Here's an example - I remember watching the 1976 Summer Olympics. Bruce Jenner competed. He won a gold medal. Saying it any other way is super awkward for me. This doesn't just apply to names on this topic. Where I used to live a street was named for an Olympic gold medalist that grew up in the area "Mary Jones Way". Later on, she got married and they changed the name to "Mary Smith Way". As things go, a few years later she got divorced and the changed the name back to "Mary Jones Way". I thought that was dumb, too. When she won the medal her name was "Mary Jones". The street should have remained that.

Are you sure it wasn't Marion Jones?

Names were changed to protect the guilty.

Chappelle’s new special addresses the trans issue in his opening story.

https://youtu.be/kxUDd6rOS38?si=72j5tkvg...

This really shouldn't be so hard. Caitlyn Jenner won the gold medal when she was formerly competing as Bruce Jenner in then men's decathlon. Since everyone (but the transphobes) call her Caitlyn Jenner today and refer to her as female today, stories about her past just require that tiny bit of clarification that she previously competed in the male division, but it is easy to do that clarification while still maintaining her proper pronouns.

A female. Just because she was presenting as male then doesn't mean her identity hasn't been female all along.

I watched it last night. Man is brilliant.