Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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ya but that guy wasnt who was killed. people who mourn and respect him for whatever reason were killed. I certainly hope that when GWB or Biden or Obama or whoever are being memorialized that his mourners are not bombed.
A high ranking member of the Iranian military complex was killed. Am I mistaken?
You Christians have killed so many more of us and oppressed us so much worse. You've commemorated it in towns like La Mort aux Juifs, France. And yet, I don't assume every single Christian wants to murder me.
I guarantee you know more about Christianity than I do, so feel free to correct any misconception I have. Where in the New Testament and life of Jesus Christ is this sort of behavior encouraged? Maybe I am wrong, but I feel you can faithfully read the New Testament and not feel it is your holy duty to war with the current state of Israel, or really war with anyone. I am not under the impression Islamic holy texts offer so much wiggle room.
I mean if you are arguing people have done horrible things in the name of the Bible and Jesus Christ, then sure, that is obvious. But in most of these cases, it doesn't seem like they are faithfully following the text or spirit of the text. Can you say the same thing for Islamic holy texts and the people advocating Jihad using them as a rationale?
I guarantee you know more about Christianity than I do, so feel free to correct any misconception I have. Where in the New Testament and life of Jesus Christ is this sort of behavior encouraged? Maybe I am wrong, but I feel you can faithfully read the New Testament and not feel it is your holy duty to war with the current state of Israel, or really war with anyone. I am not under the impression Islamic holy texts offer so much wiggle roo
Luke 19:27
[quote=Jeebus]But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.[/quote]
And this isn't even getting into the reality that religion, and religious motivated violence, is much less important and prevalent in the West than in the Western world in 2024. Which seems to be regarded as a positive thing.
I dunno. 95 people were killed on the last headline I saw. there may have been some military people there I dunno. it was a remembrance for that Suleimani guy that Trump droned on a whim. the guy who ****ed up ISIS. they did a terrorist bombing and then bombed the first responders. its grotesque. its also a hallmark of Israeli terrorism. the ole double tap.
Yeah. I think you and Victor are talking about 2 different things. He is talking about the funeral procession and projecting "The Zionists" are celebrating it.
Im not really projecting anything. I read twitter. I also use the little translate button to see what the high ranking Zionists are saying.
Well, I dont know where "here" is, but regardless I strongly disagree that this verse should be used as justification for killing anyone. And I would expect any leader I followed or voted for to be of the same opinion. And I would expect I am in the majority of "Christians" in the Western world in this opinion.
Even if they would never admit it because they would be killed for blasphemy, do you think the majority of Muslims in places like Iran or Gaza also feel this way about problematic features of their holy texts? I would argue absolutely not.
I certainly feel it is possible for the Muslim world to move past literal interpretations of their holy texts to navigate the world. But I dont really see any will or desire to do so.
As I've said all along
Israel isn't trying to govern gaza. That's bs anti Israel propoganda
Regardless, if you are arguing it is in fact possible to be an observant Muslim and not feel a duty to deny Israel's right to exist, then maybe there is more cause for optimism moving forward than I am seeing right now.
I certainly feel it is possible for the Muslim world to move past literal interpretations of their holy texts to navigate the world. But I dont really see any will or desire to do so.
If you're looking for moderate positions you probably shouldn't look in a war zone. The polls in Israel are almost as ruthless and Israelis are somewhat less afraid of criticizing their government.
Look at how opinions can change
Saudis were getting less and less fond of Hamas until Israel started dropping 10s of thousands of bombs on Gaza.
As I've said all along
Israel isn't trying to govern gaza. That's bs anti Israel propoganda
you mean as it levels all its buildings and infrastructure and clogs their sewers?
would you like it if that happened to tel aviv and then hamas says "Palestine isnt trying to govern Tel aviv"?
As I've said all along
Israel isn't trying to govern gaza. That's bs anti Israel propoganda
In fairness there is no will by Gaza Palestinians to remove Hamas, and no ability by Israel to make this a reality without the will of the people. So these 2 statements (Palestinians will control Gaza AND Hamas will be gone) aren't really compatible.
I mean at some level if you make an unrealistic endpoint as a pre-requisite for peace, then you are basically saying there wont be any peace. This is true for both sides.
I mean if you want to say there wont be peace because the Palestinians wont do the basic minimum to allow peace then that is fine. But it is important to own this reality, instead of making statements incongruent with the world as it is.
Regardless, if you are arguing it is in fact possible to be an observant Muslim and not feel a duty to deny Israel's right to exist, then maybe there is more cause for optimism moving forward than I am seeing right now.
Israel's dropping maybe 4 atomic bombs worth of munitions on Gaza is going to make things bad for quite a while. I might live long enough for a tiny chance at things improving, but probably not.
Israel does not want to control Gaza, but with the way things are heading they will almost certainly have to occupy it for a long time.
Jesus is not giving a command, that is part of a parable.
The amount of Palestinians killed vs Israelis completely misses the point. The question is how can they justify those killings, and the answer is not because they they love killing innocent people; it is a result of a long conflict where both sides have legitimate grievances leading to dehumanization of the other side.
Israel's dropping maybe 4 atomic bombs worth of munitions on Gaza is going to make things bad for quite a while. I might live long enough for a tiny chance at things improving, but probably not.
Fair enough. But it is a 2 way street. I dont see it as particularly productive to unilaterally blame Israel and/or the US for getting to this point. History didn't start on 10/8/2023.
It’s cause they love killing Palestinians.
Israel does not want to control Gaza, but with the way things are heading they will almost certainly have to occupy it for a long time.
Jesus is not giving a command, that is part of a parable.
The amount of Palestinians killed vs Israelis completely misses the point. The question is how can they justify those killings, and the answer is not because they they love killing innocent people; it is a result of a long conflict where both sides hav
You are going to have to agree to disagree with half the people who post in this thread on this point as it pertains to Israel. Just is what it is.
It's both sides, but Israel is definitely losing the media war (despite massive attempts to control it, Israeli bots are ridiculous).
Average person is incredibly uneducated on the situation. If one were to look at the situation starting from October 7, it's a very reasonable view to say "Oct 7 was horrible, but Israel is way out of line." Israel is out of line imo.
It's both sides, but Israel is definitely losing the media war (despite massive attempts to control it, Israeli bots are ridiculous).
Average person is incredibly uneducated on the situation. If one were to look at the situation starting from October 7, it's a very reasonable view to say "Oct 7 was horrible, but Israel is way out of line." Israel is out of line imo.
with your post before you nailed it. this one not so sure.
what do you want israel to do now instead? what would be a better option? do you want them to go in an do a special op thing?
that would mean way too many casualties on israels side. what else could they do?
Israel does not want to control Gaza, but with the way things are heading they will almost certainly have to occupy it for a long time.
Jesus is not giving a command, that is part of a parable.
The amount of Palestinians killed vs Israelis completely misses the point. The question is how can they justify those killings, and the answer is not because they they love killing innocent people; it is a result of a long conflict where both sides ha
you nailed it here. Agreed
with your post before you nailed it. this one not so sure.
what do you want israel to do now instead? what would be a better option?
How about a quarter of an atomic bomb or a half of one maybe instead of 4?
Or is there no limit? Could be 12 atomic bombs and you'd still say "what would be a better option?"
