Politics and Society Moderation Discussion Only Fans Thread
Hello everyone. I've closed the previous mod thread, and opened this to capture all issues related to moderation policies and actions going forward. I'll kick it off by reposting my intro post from the other thread. Again, I'm happy to be here and look forward to hearing from you.
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Hello everyone.
I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to serve as a moderator in Politics and Society. I asked for this position because I believe we are experiencing a polarization in our politics and society unseen since the 1960s. We may well be at a juncture from which we will either make great progress or suffer great setbacks in regards to our democratic foundations and civil rights over the next few years. So I believe it is important to maintain a forum for discussing these important topics. When the other mods had to step back a bit due to their real life time obligations, I asked to join the mod team to help keep the forum going.
I have not followed this forum in the past, though I have been reading through threads the last few days and made a few posts. This has allowed me to get a sense of the initial impression the forum likely makes on new readers who are deciding if our forum is a place they would like to visit regularly and participate in. While I see some familiar names from the live poker forum, many of you I have not had any interaction with to date. I have no preconceived notions of anyone's posting behavior and will essentially start from a clean slate.
I will shortly post more about my modding approach and give my initial impressions of the forum based on my observations over the last several days. I will be soliciting your input on things you like about the forum that you want to remain, and things you don't like that you would like me to change. Your candid input and feedback is very important to me. Especially, please don't hesitate to let me know if you think a policy or a proposal is a bad idea. I'd rather hear it before it goes into effect than after.
My overall modding principle is simple: Be Nice. Disagreement need not be disrespectful, and everyone must be treated with respect. Calling a poster derogatory names or hurling snarky insults never usefully advances a discussion. It just bogs things down and turns off many would be participants. And it's not nice. Don't do it.
My goal is to have a forum where people with a wide variety of opinions along the political spectrum enjoy expressing and debating their views in a spirited manner, free from insults, bigotry and denigrating comments. If you enjoy discussing these important and often polarizing issues in a passionate, yet respectful manner, I look forward to getting to know you and working with you to create a forum people will enjoy visiting and contributing to. You can be as committed, determined and relentless as you like in advocating for your position. Be persuasive, thought provoking and challenging. But be nice.
I want to thank tame_deuces and King Spew for their support in bringing me onboard and for all the time and effort they have put into making the forum better. While I am taking over most of the day to day modding responsibilities, both are retaining their mod status and superpowers, and will be supporting the forum as their availability permits. And I personally welcome their continued advice and feedback.
Again, I am happy to be here and look forward to getting to know you.
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I am honestly shocked that you were able to write this out when there is a thread in this forum where half the posts are openly antisemitic.
It’s ok to beat up on the Jews, but god forbid you verbalize your opinion on trans, then you better agree with the woke mob.
There used to be a time in this country when we had free speech and one of the good things about free speech was the freedom to offend others. That’s how debate was done. Now, it’s, “agree with us or we cancel you”.
Referring to a man/biological male that is wearing a dress as a “he” is not misgendering. This guideline of yours is just forced speech. Are you trying to make this forum like North Korea or Nazi Germany?
As for the 2nd part of that quote, what you are describing is an echo chamber. “Leave here and go there” why would anyone want to go discuss topics somewhere where everyone agrees and only one side of the argument is discussed?
Please re
They clearly are not interested in healthy exchange of ideas. They’re insane and want an echo chamber for their whacky ideas.
Israel has killed over 30k innocent civilians and any criticism is antisemitic. another flawless victory for mainstream media brainwashing.
I wonder why the policy of not allowing posters to argue that all transgender people are mentally ill is drawing so much concern when our policy of not allowing posters to argue that blacks as a group are less intelligent than whites has not? There are websites that allow that discussion openly. This isn't one of them. In both cases the position of the majority of scientists is that those positions are false. But in both cases the other sid
Like gender, race is also not real....which likely explains why we have no one arguing for that. Posters here are pretty smart.
The book is called “ Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders”. If something is in that book it is, by definition, a mental disorder and gender dysphoria is in there. Not all of those people may have that diagnosis but if they do then by definition they suffer from……a mental disorder. Just like depression. Anxiety. Psychosis. Etc.
A person’s speech represents their perception of life. By compelling speech, ie forcing them to ca
Since you are familiar with DSM5TR, put out by the APA, then you also must be familiar with the definition of gender dysphoria, that you correctly state is a mental disorder:
"Gender dysphoria: A concept designated in the DSM-5-TR as clinically significant distress or impairment related to gender incongruence, which may include desire to change primary and/or secondary sex characteristics. Not all transgender or gender diverse people experience gender dysphoria."
So it couldnt be clearer that in the opinion of the APA, (as well as other references and organizations) as expressed in DSM5TR that simply being transgender is NOT considered having a mental disorder or illness. And stating that a category of people who, as a group, have a mental illness when they do not is harmful and inappropriate. That's why it is not permitted, no matter how badly you want to continue the debate.
Gender Dysphoria is in the DSM-5 as something some transgender people experience. Is that still allowed to be discussed?
That's a mental disorder that some transgender people experience. The dsm-5 also states that not all transgender people experience gender dysphoria. So as long as someone doesnt try and say that all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and therefore all have mental illness, I could see how it could be discussed in the proper context.
Just to close the loop on gender dysphoria, here is the question and answer from yesterday
While you are welcome to express your concern about the new policy, you should know it is not going to be reversed. For those asking why we are shutting down this topic, but allowing X,Y or Z topic, if those topics violate forum rules they will be dealt with accordingly. No need for whataboutism. The fact that we are addressing this issue now does not mean will not ne addressing other issues as needed.If you are someone who hasnt made the
For those who are surfacing their concerns about antisemitic posts, pls see the bolded. These things take time, and mods do not follow threads in real time.
Like gender, race is also not real....which likely explains why we have no one arguing for that. Posters here are pretty smart.
That can be debated in a different thread if anyone wants to, but I seriously doubt that the reason no one is discussing that topic is because everyone here believes that race is not real.
Actually, we were discussing what chillrob said, but thanks for adding your additional situation. Like I said, sounds rough.
Yes, and you still didn't make it clear what that silly statement means, IMO. I have shown how it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that all trans people are mentally ill. Saying someone is mentally ill doesn't mean they don't exist.
As someone who has suffered from mental illness most of his life I also don't appreciate all the negativity about it - particularly the constant implication that mental illness is a terrible thing to discuss or that it is bad to speculate that someone may have a mental illness.
If you're worried about offending trans people here, I think you should be even more worried about offending people with mental illnesses. AFAIK we don't have any regular posters here who are trans, while we have had at least a few who have freely admitted they have been treated for mental illness.
Yes, and you still didn't make it clear what that silly statement means, IMO. I have shown how it doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that all trans people are mentally ill. Saying someone is mentally ill doesn't mean they don't exist.
As someone who has suffered from mental illness most of his life I also don't appreciate all the negativity about it - particularly the constant implication that mental illness is a terrible thing to discus
Its not an issue of putting a stigma on mental illness or those who have a mental illness. It is about people who do not have a mental illness being described as having one. In the past, and still today, declaring that all members of the various lgbqt communities are, by definition, mentally ill has been used as the justification for all sorts of harmful treatment and discrimination. Declaring they all suffer from mental illness is a weapon used to marginalize their efforts to obtain equal rights.
I wonder why the policy of not allowing posters to argue that all transgender people are mentally ill is drawing so much concern when our policy of not allowing posters to argue that blacks as a group are less intelligent than whites has not? There are websites that allow that discussion openly. This isn't one of them. In both cases the position of the majority of scientists is that those positions are false. But in both cases the other sid
My guess is since that became a rule much earlier in time, those who disagreed with the rule have since been banned or have been forced to express their beliefs about race elsewhere.
But I think there is a difference, because if blacks as a group are less intelligent than whites, that doesn't really imply anything about what medical/psychological treatments should be recommended for them.
But I think there is a difference, because if blacks as a group are less intelligent than whites, that doesn't really imply anything about what medical/psychological treatments should be recommended for them.
Maybe they could go to frat parties in whiteface for those much needed extra IQ points?
Its not an issue of putting a stigma on mental illness or those who have a mental illness. It is about people who do not have a mental illness being described as having one. In the past, and still today, declaring that all members of the various lgbqt communities have, by definition, are mentally ill has been used as the justification for all sorts of harmful treatment and discrimination.
That is because in the past, and still today, people with mental illnesses are treated poorly and discriminated against.
Obviously you think it implies something negative to say that all trans people are mentally ill, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to prevent it.
That is because in the past, and still today, people with mental illnesses are treated poorly and discriminated against.
Obviously you think it implies something negative to say that all trans people are mentally ill, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to prevent it.
Yeah, this.
I am generally against of the trend of the last several decades of treating every single sniffle as a "mental illness". This totally a layman's point of view, but I have witnessed so many people who are basically criminals diagnosed with "mental illness", that the term doesn't mean much to me any more other than a get out of jail free card. You like drugs? Mental illness. You like to stab or shoot people? Mental illness. You like to masturbate while watching videos of midgets fisting goats? Mental illness. The last one hits especially close to home, I mean, it was just videos.
I think the general point I'm trying to make is that "mental illness" has graduated from being a diagnosis of people we would all consider genuinely crazy - hearing voices, talking to god (had to throw that in there), etc. to basically, anyone who doesn't conform to some sort of probably unattainable norm is a deviant of some sort. People are different, it's all part of life's rich tapestry. Part of those differences is that some people are genuinely evil ****s, and some like to hold tea parties for their collection of puppets, and yet others like to think they should have been born with a different set of genitalia.
The term "mental illness" carries a lot of negative connotations, but as applied, every single poster on this forum and 90%+ of the humans on earth are probably "mentally ill".
To me, it's just a meaningless term.
Illnesses are inherently bad. I cannot think of a single mental illness that someone wishes that they had. If I'm a depressed person, then I'm better off losing the depression. If being trans is a mental illness then a trans person is better off not being trans; I do not think that is inherently true.
If you think that life choices are stigmatized by being deemed mental illnesses when they are not then it seems like you should be against the stigmatization of life choices such as choosing to transition.
People being treated poorly for having mental illnesses seems like a different issue, and I agree it is an issue.
That is because in the past, and still today, people with mental illnesses are treated poorly and discriminated against.
This is completey wrong.
It's like calling gay people mentally ill. That's deeply prejudiced and offensive. Nothing whatsover to do with mentally ill people being treated badly which is a different serious problem.
Obviously you think it implies something negative to say that all trans people are mentally ill, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to prevent it.
So yes. And quite rightly so.
There are absolutely very real, tangible ramifications for being diagnosed with a mental illness. While not fair, it is a very real part of life. That's why, for example, military members, esp those who require a high level security clearance, are so reluctant to seek help for mental health issues. Same with police and others whose job requires the use of firearms. A diagnosis of a mental illness causes people to lose jobs. WwIt is hard enough for those with mental disorders to deal with those prejudices and negative ramifications.
Now consider that you have no mental illness at all. But people insist you do, and you are a victim of the same discrimination as those who do. You are let go from your job under the guise of being "mentally unstable" or having a mental illness, when in fact that is just an excuse to discriminate against you because you are a transgender person.
Imagine you are a cis person who has no mental illness. Your boss shows up and says you are being removed from your job due to your mental disorder. You are stunned. You have displayed no indications of mental illness and your work has been fine. But your boss insists you have a mental illness and lets you go.
Declaring someone who does not have a mental illness actually does is a form of attack that has historically been used against gay people and transgender people as a way to marginalize them. Why would we need to provide job protections to transgender people since they are mentally ill anyway? It must be OK to ban schools from discussing transgender issues because they are all mentally ill, right? Labelling an entire group of people as mentally ill is a pass to marginalize them in almost every aspect of society.
It's simply wrong, discriminatory and harmful. It will not be allowed here.
Throughout the years, there have been many great lgbtq posters, commentators, and analysts in the twoplustwo politics forum, including trans posters.
If you were gay like me you’d realize lgbtq already face soft marginalization all the time, my posts (and others) are often perceived wrongly and I am held to a higher standard than a typical poster already, just for existing. Yes, many of these posters have been scared off by the increasingly vitriolic rhetoric.
The least you can do is acknowledge they exist.
LGBTQ people include a surprisingly large number of serious gamblers. None of us have time to play word games with people who think members of the community are defined by what they wear or don’t exist. No amount of “astroturfing” will ever change the reality of lgbtq people.
However, there may be serious issues they want to discuss.
Illnesses are inherently bad. I cannot think of a single mental illness that someone wishes that they had. If I'm a depressed person, then I'm better off losing the depression. If being trans is a mental illness then a trans person is better off not being trans; I do not think that is inherently true.
If you think that life choices are stigmatized by being deemed mental illnesses when they are not then it seems like you should be against the
I am against trans people being stigmatized, and I actively support them quite often, likely more often than anyone else here.
You are correct that illnesses are inherently bad, which is why I have said I would greatly prefer a different term be used for mental conditions which may cause difficulty in people's lives. Some of them obviously meet the standard definition of illness, while others do not.
I don't think having depression is necessarily "bad". It makes one's life more difficult, but it can result in great art being produced, and depressed people have also been shown to make better predictions of future events.
Being trans also makes one's life more difficult, I think pretty much anyone could confirm. It also is something that originates inside the brain. And there can be some positive things that result from being trans, including art that I appreciate.
As someone with depresson, I see a lot of similarity between being depressed and being trans, and I don't see one as more or less negative than the other. Obviously you and browser and some others have a bias against those with depression and other 'mental illnesses'.
Throughout the years, there have been many great lgbtq posters, commentators, and analysts in the twoplustwo politics forum, including trans posters.
If you were gay like me you’d realize lgbtq already face soft marginalization all the time, my posts (and others) are often perceived wrongly and I am held to a higher standard than a typical poster already, just for existing. Yes, many of these posters have been scared off by the increasingl
I haven't been in the politics forum that long, I just stated that I don't know of any current ones.
I do know of a trans woman who used to post in the online dating thread when I followed that one, and she provided some great insight into things trans people go through as well as some useful dating advice; I even exchanged some DMs with her.
