Politics and Society Moderation Discussion Only Fans Thread
Hello everyone. I've closed the previous mod thread, and opened this to capture all issues related to moderation policies and actions going forward. I'll kick it off by reposting my intro post from the other thread. Again, I'm happy to be here and look forward to hearing from you.
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Hello everyone.
I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to serve as a moderator in Politics and Society. I asked for this position because I believe we are experiencing a polarization in our politics and society unseen since the 1960s. We may well be at a juncture from which we will either make great progress or suffer great setbacks in regards to our democratic foundations and civil rights over the next few years. So I believe it is important to maintain a forum for discussing these important topics. When the other mods had to step back a bit due to their real life time obligations, I asked to join the mod team to help keep the forum going.
I have not followed this forum in the past, though I have been reading through threads the last few days and made a few posts. This has allowed me to get a sense of the initial impression the forum likely makes on new readers who are deciding if our forum is a place they would like to visit regularly and participate in. While I see some familiar names from the live poker forum, many of you I have not had any interaction with to date. I have no preconceived notions of anyone's posting behavior and will essentially start from a clean slate.
I will shortly post more about my modding approach and give my initial impressions of the forum based on my observations over the last several days. I will be soliciting your input on things you like about the forum that you want to remain, and things you don't like that you would like me to change. Your candid input and feedback is very important to me. Especially, please don't hesitate to let me know if you think a policy or a proposal is a bad idea. I'd rather hear it before it goes into effect than after.
My overall modding principle is simple: Be Nice. Disagreement need not be disrespectful, and everyone must be treated with respect. Calling a poster derogatory names or hurling snarky insults never usefully advances a discussion. It just bogs things down and turns off many would be participants. And it's not nice. Don't do it.
My goal is to have a forum where people with a wide variety of opinions along the political spectrum enjoy expressing and debating their views in a spirited manner, free from insults, bigotry and denigrating comments. If you enjoy discussing these important and often polarizing issues in a passionate, yet respectful manner, I look forward to getting to know you and working with you to create a forum people will enjoy visiting and contributing to. You can be as committed, determined and relentless as you like in advocating for your position. Be persuasive, thought provoking and challenging. But be nice.
I want to thank tame_deuces and King Spew for their support in bringing me onboard and for all the time and effort they have put into making the forum better. While I am taking over most of the day to day modding responsibilities, both are retaining their mod status and superpowers, and will be supporting the forum as their availability permits. And I personally welcome their continued advice and feedback.
Again, I am happy to be here and look forward to getting to know you.
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Explain your interest in this issue, where it comes from, how you arrived at your views and why you are convinced that no views other than yours are acceptable.
LOL.
I only remember seeing one person saying all trans people are mentally ill, and no one saying they don't really exist.
Multiple people have said it on these forums, and unsurprisingly a couple of them have shown up here to whine about not being allowed to any more.
And this whole "no one says they don't exist" thing is just a strawman that quite a few people regularly use as a go to. Yes, we all know that no one is saying that transgender people are imaginary or made up. Is it really not obvious that when someone makes a comment like "trans people really exist as trans people" (note the important last three words you left out), they are combating the idea that someone can't really be transgender, it's a mental illness, there can only be two genders, blah blah blah.
OK, so what's your point here?
It is definitely not obvious to me what 'trans people really exist as trans people' means, as it appears to be self-evident and I have never seen anyone argue differently. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with claims of mental illness.
I believe all depressed people have a mental illness, and I also believe that depressed period really exist as depressed people.
And this whole "no one says they don't exist" thing is just a strawman that quite a few people regularly use as a go to. Yes, we all know that no one is saying that transgender people are imaginary or made up.
Perhaps you guys should be a bit more careful with your language? If you're going to use hyperbole don't be surprised when it gets thrown back at you.
It is definitely not obvious to me what 'trans people really exist as trans people' means, as it appears to be self-evident and I have never seen anyone argue differently. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with claims of mental illness.
I just explained to you what it means, which makes a lot more sense than transgender people being imaginary.
Perhaps you guys should be a bit more careful with your language? If you're going to use hyperbole don't be surprised when it gets thrown back at you.
Yes, people could be more careful with their language about a number of things. And other people could spend less time pretending they don't understand what people mean and more time discussing the actual issues.
While you are welcome to express your concern about the new policy, you should know it is not going to be reversed. For those asking why we are shutting down this topic, but allowing X,Y or Z topic, if those topics violate forum rules they will be dealt with accordingly. No need for whataboutism. The fact that we are addressing this issue now does not mean will not ne addressing other issues as needed. If you are someone who hasnt made the case that all transgender people are mentally ill, or that almost no one has is this forum, then this policy will have no impact on you or the vast majority of posters here.
The only people this policy will cause to change their behavior will be those who have posted that being transgender is a mental disorder. Those people will either have to stop posting that opinion here or face having posts deleted and if they continue, being banned. So only those people who feel so strongly about transgender people being mentally ill that they just cant help but continue to post that opinion here face any changes due to the policy. According to the feedback so far, that is a minuscule number of people. Everyone else can just continue to post as they have on this topic without concern.
Is it really not obvious that when someone makes a comment like "trans people really exist as trans people" (note the important last three words you left out), they are combating the idea that someone can't really be transgender, it's a mental illness, there can only be two genders, blah blah blah.
It’s gone way beyond a response saying, “I know my bio sex is M, but I identify as F.” It’s the active promotion of the claim that a trans person is not just identifying as F, it’s their “true gender” which they have an innate connection to.
I am getting accused of denying the existence of trans if I don’t accept the latter, even while accepting the former.
Sounds rough.
I'm not going to go back to look for it as it was some time ago, but one line of argument went something like this:
There is no actual thing being transgender. Transgender people do not exist. It is simply the delusion of a regular person with a mental illness.
So when I refer to denying that transgender people exist, that is primarily what I was thinking of.
And this was many, many months ago, not a recent post.
Hope that clarifies things.
I'm not going to go back to look for it as it was some time ago, but one line of argument went something like this:
There is no actual thing being transgender. Transgender people do not exist. It is simply the delusion of a regular person with a mental illness.
So when I refer to denying that transgender people exist, that is primarily what I was thinking of.
Hope that clarifies things.
This point, and how you meant to distinguish and implement, I think was all clear to me.
TY
When you are assessing this policyand why it was implemented, consider this aspect.
We want people to be able to come to this forum and find a welcoming (or at least nonhostile) environment where they feel comfortable discussing various political topics. Obviously this includes transgender people. And they could add valuable insight and personal experiences to discussions about the effect of various laws and policies on their lives, the discrimination they face, etc.
But imagine you come to a forum and people are stating that you actually have a mental disorder or are mentally ill. You are likely aware that there are people who believe that, but didnt expect to have to deal with that on a subforum of a poker site. Nor should they have to. That is an important aspect of this. Everyone should be able to enjoy our site without facing those types of comments.
We should never be the cause of a conversation like this between a transgender person and a friend or family member:
TGP: can you believe this? There are people on TPT saying I'm mentally ill just because Im transgender.
Friend: Dont pay any attention to them. They're crazy.
When you are assessing this policyand why it was implemented, consider this aspect.
We want people to be able to come to this forum and find a welcoming (or at least nonhostile) environment where they feel comfortable discussing various political topics. Obviously this includes transgender people. And they could add valuable insight and personal experiences to discussions about the effect of various laws and policies on their lives, the dis
Bit of a slippery slope there. This forum has a long and storied history of making Trumpers uncomfortable, IMO, with good reason. I hope this new policy doesn't degenerate to having to hold Trumpers' hands and tell them it's ok they like voting for fascists.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not in any way equating Trumpers with transgender people. I'm saying that being inclusive and welcoming to everyone equally shouldn't be a stated goal of a politics discussion board.
It's exactly what he said. It is impossible to have a political discussion about social issues where all can join and no one feels uncomfortable. Please don't interpret this as me agreeing that transgender people have a mental illness (they don't) or that I agree with Meisner about the various things he rants about while being needlessly provocative with his word choices. But creating "safe places" for some in a public forum meant for all ends up killing debate.
It's exactly what he said. It is impossible to have a political discussion about social issues where all can join and no one feels uncomfortable. Please don't interpret this as me agreeing that transgender people have a mental illness (they don't) or that I agree with Meisner about the various things he rants about while being needlessly provocative with his word choices. But creating "safe places" for some in a public forum meant for all e
If by uncomfortable you mean because people are challenging your positions or beliefs by presenting arguments and data that show your position is wrong, that's fine. It's part of the fabric of political debate.
What I am saying is that no one should feel uncomfortable because someone is calling them a ****ing moron, or otherwise attacking them personally rather than attacking the flaws in their argument. When arguing politics you should need a sharp mind, not a thick skin. So its one thing if a trumper feels uncomfortable when someone debunks a statement about machines changing ballots. But its another if someone goes " only the stupidest mother****ers on earth support that guy".
