Israel/Palestine thread

They are literally quoting international law.

As for the Brits war tourist soldiers, well all you gotta do is pop open Israeli tiktok to see all the gleeful evidence of war crimes.

That said, I don't think they should be prosecuted for just joining the IDF. They should be strenuously investigated and when the inevitable war crimes that they committed becomes apparent, then they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Tbh, I am not too familiar with Orban. I just know he is Russia aligned. And I am familiar with Visegrad bc they were a leading pro-Ukraine propaganda outlet that gained a lot of traction and reputability amongst the liberals. I knew they were trash since 2022.

They have since been exposed.

And maybe Orban is supporting them now since he is tight with Bibi.

I do wonder if liberals will distance themselves from Visegrad. Or if they will reflect all about why they were fully enraptured by a blatantly fascist propaganda outlet. Actually, I don't wonder.

grunching here (saw a few posts above)

I have great respect for the knowledge of posters on this sub-forum, including those who disagree with me

A few thoughts,

1) there needs to be much more disclosure and description of alleged anti-Semitic behaviour by students... Seems to me that "basic criticism of Israel" is considered Anti-Semitic. I saw wanting a Palestinian state continuous from med sea to Jordan was "Jewish genocide" as where would the jews go. Good grief. They could move elsewhere in Israel, analogous.to what the Palestinians did.I the 1940'a and1950's... What constitutes "anti-semitic" behaviour/statements? Same with advocating "genocide of jews". This one seems straight-forward but I'm guessing it isn't

2) protests usually contain people with many different views and motivations. I.was at a rally recently (mostly to accompany friend) on transgender/parental disclosure in schools. Seems there were 1) simply anti-gay people (would be against.gay. marriage.whereas many protesters wouldn't be): 2) religions very anti-gay 3) government stay out.of family's lives (i.e. Schools shouldn't promote alt-lifestyles... Schools,must.inform parents of gender pronoun changes at school.. Guidance.counsellors should,not usurp parent.control 4) people with problems with specific issues. Informing parents was a big one. Different from #3_which is more anti-government..5) my category. A lot of stuff needs to be age appropriate. 14 year-old and 7 year-olds are not the same..... Also the progressives have lost touch with reality but that's broader issue

Anyway, my complaint category is most benign but I get judged by the conduct of the worst people there

2) on the UN, are 150 or 170 countries really anti-Semitic ?apologize if my number is too high.... Seems like huge % of countries see things one way and "Israel lobby and Jewish money/influence" countries see it another way

On Jewish money/influence, I don't begrudge them. They are extremely successful. Why shouldn't they be very powerful as a group?

I should note that googling for actual instances of anti-Semitism at ivy league universities brings up few examples... Certainly brings up a lot of capitol hill testimony and mentions of Elise stepanik

Palestine/Israel has a lot of similarities to South Africa.apartheid.

A lot of differences too

I.was.curious as to how similar life in gaza is to Jewish ghettos life in pre WW2 Poland... I've read lots of fiction on the.ghetto and it seems like jews were locked inside at night. And in Big trouble if they don't make inside by curfew

I.realize that.was.fiction but too authors.... And that would be only one element of gaza.vs. Warsaw ghetto (for example)

Things,would be very very different if a small number of countries didn't have veto power in the UK

I think on humanitarian and peace-keeping.issues.tjat.it should be changed.. But that's a lot of important issues and US/UK would be.probably withdraw from UN

Yep
Not even close

People like microbet think they are supposed to discredit papers like NYP because they lean right. But that's of course ridiculous

The nyp got suspended on twitter for breaking the hunter biden story in 2020

It of course turned out to be accurate

Conservative doesn't mean unreliable.

Power of the veto or security council countries vs average countries.

So.they both could be true

Can "bias" be ok? I assume so.. Winston Churchill was "biased" against Nazi Germany

150 countries have a combination of being anti semetic and not understanding or acknowledging the 1949 Armistice agreement

Nakba denial should be treated similarly to holocaust denial.

The number of Jews fleeing Arab countries for Israel in the years following Israel's independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Many Jews were allowed to take little more than the shirts on their backs. These refugees had no desire to be repatriated. Little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long. Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, 586,000 were resettled in Israel at great expense, and without any offer of compensation from the Arab governments who confiscated their possessions.3a Israel has consequently maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day, the Arab states have refused to pay any compensation to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to abandon their property before fleeing those countries. Through November 2003, 101 of the 681 UN resolutions on the Middle East conflict referred directly to Palestinian refugees. Not one mentioned the Jewish refugees from Arab countries.3b

ok, but that doesnt mean the Nakba didnt happen. and the Palestinians had nothing to do with those Jews leaving.

1) Palestinians have been screwed by almost everyone including themselves and their leaders (official and otherwise).... Why shouldn't they have been allowed to get their land back?... Arab countries have definitely misled them (even more recently.. If you become our citizen

2)_was the jews driving the Palestinians away and "forming a country from river to sea" not "genocide of muslims" or "genocide of palestinians"?...

3)connecting Gaza/West Bank over to Jordan would mean no Israel? Have you looked at a map of Israel? Golan Heights?Nazareth? Tel Aviv?. certainly the South would be isolated but not much population

maybe there are some repercussions for that absolutely atrocious piece of fabrications from NYT

1 why weren't the 820,000 jews that were expelled from arab countries able go get their land back or reperations?

2 jews went to the only place they were welcome. Land that was given by the un and then expanded in defensive wars. I again point you to the 1949 Armistice Agreement

3 Jews had no access to Jerusalem from 1948-1967. When you connect gaza and the west bank, how do jews access Jerusalem? Or who cares?

Again have you ever read the Armistice Agreement?

1) jews should have been allowed back too..... 2 wrongs don't make a right.

2) how is it not the same? even if it was necessary....double standard.... the UN was wildly biased in those days. are you not aware of Winston Churchill's views? pretty sure he'd eliminate the palestinians if he could (he couldn't)........................... US/UK/etc pretty support Israel in any way and turn a blind eye to settlers moving illegally into the West Bank. ... i saw a politician say "how can you interpret nation from sea to river as anything other than "genocide of israel" or "genocide of jews". well, i just showed you that there is massive amount of land above and below such a new nation. the uprooted jews could move there just like uprooted palestinians. again, a complete double standard.. you mentioned jews being expelled from other countries. that was wrong too.

3)....... how is jews not having access to jerusalem remotely related to "there being no Israel"? i understand it's an important issue but there would be still be an Israel... and if they made it ok 20 years without going there, i am pretty

it's all ok because of a 1947 armistace agreement. that is what you are telling me............ and because Egypt, Syria etc. attacked Israel, let's roll back the Palestinians land? sure, that sounds good.

you'd think after the holocaust, Israel might be a bit more empathetic but apparently not.

i'll look at the Armistace Agreement if you will look at a map of Israel..... it's obvious you haven't. at least not with an objective eye.

have i said anything remotely anti-semitic?....... yes, i have because i criticized israel!!!! just like the vast majority of ivy league students. for sure, some went beyond that. and a few way beyond.. but everyone is being painted with the same brush.

honestly, the world seems hypocritical to not help palestinians more when you look at what they did for south african blacks. yes, there are a few big differences

yes its very hypocritical. good posts birdie.

fwiw, Israel was in tight with the South African apartheid regime.

Well, the world has extremely involved in the Palestinian cause, it has just been a very destructive, malignant involvement.

Half the measure the UN has passed in the last few decades have involved the Palestinians. The Palestinians literally have their own UN (UNRWA) devoted to their cause.

In the last few decades Arab Muslims, many citing religious motivations, have genocided tens of millions of people in this part of the world, and caused millions upon millions of refugees (Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Yemen, etc.). This is ongoing as we speak. The genociding of all the Jews from their ancestral land was really just the tip of the iceberg.

In most of these cases the UN has worked towards getting these refugees towards safety.

For the Palestinians however, the UN has worked towards forcing them into refugee camps under Israeli control completely reliant on UN aid. And instead of working with the people towards a peaceful, political solution, they have been covertly supporting a homicidal, genocidal guerrilla war effort. UN schools are where much of the brainwashing occurs, where the Palestinians are taught that martyrdom fighting the Yahood is the greatest honor in life.

The UN probably couldn't be more malignant and destructive and counterproductive if they tried. At this point it is clear the Palestinians need a lot less UN involvement.

As much as people like Haywood like to use the "I dont want my tax dollars spent on this" argument for criticizing Israel; given how much money the US contributes to the UN, and how that money is spent (to keep the Palestinians trapped in generational refugee camps and covertly supporting the guerrilla war effort with the Yahood), I think it just as legitimate for any American to demand the UN do better.

My understanding is UNRWA just hired a new woman to head the relief effort, so maybe she has some ideas to change the malignant role the UN has had in this affair; but she happens to be the (former?) wife of one of Arafat's top lieutenants, so doesn't look too promising.

We're also in the situation where less military aid to Israel at this moment means more civilian deaths since the military aid going to Israel was spend on weapons to be used in case of an existential threat, and not what is going on in Gaza now.

That is a fundamental misunderstanding a lot in this thread have. That US aid (to Israel, the Palestinians, Egypt, etc.) has definitely kept the casualty count way, way, way, way down.

This can be seen as good or bad, for without so much US involvement to keep the status quo alive, the Palestinian situation would have most likely been resolved by now (most likely by resettlement) and everyone would be better off.

But yeah, moving forward, if/when US becomes less involved in the Middle East, expect wars and civilian casualties to escalate dramatically.

less military aid to Israel means more civilian death? did you make a typo. I dont follow. please explain.

NY Post has been tabloid trash since long before anyone even thought of it as conservative. The Wall St journal is a conservative paper. The NY Post is trash.