Politics and Society Moderation Discussion Only Fans Thread

Even if it's an opinion, how is unreasonable to ask for examples of the behavior you're accused of in order to examine that behavior? I see no snarkiness in that post.

I did not say you asked the mods to do anything. I asked the mods to do something. If they agree that asking for examples of how I do what I'm accused of doing is excessively asking for "citations" and that I was being snarky then I would examine my behavior accordingly.

Until then I'm stuck assuming it is another attempt of yours to attack the person instead of the argument.

I am not wondering why you aren't charitable towards me. You are not a charitable person on this subforum. Any time you have an argument of yours dismantled you tend to lash out at the person dismantling it. This has been happening repeatedly for months, so it's no wonder that you just immediately resort to the lashing out against the person now.

While others believe you are an anti-Semite, I don't currently have enough information to say. Despite the focus of this quote being anti-Semitism, I believe this quote accurately describes our interactions except instead of silence you get angry:

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

Yeah. I disagree and feel he's been given free reign to engage in his anti Semitism. You evidently don't. We leave it at that.

I linked how his claim was a well known anti Semitic trope. You must have missed that bit.

Im not attacking anyone. I am saying you need to be the change you want to see in the world. until then, I cant help you.

I tried the approach you suggested. Other posters commented on how patient I was with you for months. You wore me down, much as you have worn down others in this forum. I believe the problem is you, not me. This is why I am here.

You consistently rant how everyone loves seeing Palestinian babies being killed. That's attacking people. Your lack of self awareness is quite something.

well, I think you may be on to something. you think that I am obligated to change my opinions due to your posting. thats not how this works.

and I really didnt get the sense that you were more patient or nicer at all.

but hey, we can try...starting now...

I don't think you are obligated to change your opinions based on my posting. I do think if your opinions should be defended if you are going to voice them.

For example when you come in and say that Euromaidan was a Nazi coup, and I post overwhelming evidence that it was not, you don't have to change your opinion.

If you repeat your false opinion again I believe it should be with something to back it up in order to keep the conversation going, hence asking for citations. For example when you came in and said that a recent trial proved that Euromaidan snipers slaughtered protestors and no police were involved we were able to discuss that. We looked at the evidence and discovered that actually the trial uncovered that 40 of the 48 protestors slaughtered had bullets from police and there was nothing to indicate that Euromaidan snipers were involved.

The next time when you repeated the false narrative with no new evidence there was nowhere for the conversation to go except to say "Already debunked." and you say "Nuh uh" and back and forth.

This is all entirely beside the point of why I'm here though. It is in regard to your contentless posts that only serve to insult and anger people, your continually trying to derail a thread, and your trolling. I have never suggested you be banned due to your opinions. The only time I have suggested that anyone should be banned for their opinions was when someone suggested that 80%+ of Ukrainians should be exterminated.

you make a lot of assertions in that post. they are almost entirely wrong. I have posted evidence, from Ukrainian sources, primary sources, and mainstream sources that prove all of that wrong.

but you dont see me whining to the mods that you yourself BGP needs to believe it or else you should be banned.

and again, your post is highly derogatory and full of attacks. why would I not respond to you in kind?

I wouldn't call Euromaidan a nazi coup-- it was a Western backed color revolution that used nazis, but the nazis weren't running the show.....unless you want to consider Victoria Nuland a nazi in which case they were, and that's a bit hyperbolic but I'm ok with it.

Surely you should be much more worried about people being racist, being antisemitic, or being transphobic than uh someone too quickly labelling people as such.

NOPE. thats RIDICULOUS to suggest. We have a problem with lefties trying to cancel people with name calling. We don't have the other problems here so much at all. <<< mod topics

No, because the issue is that the labels get stuck on people for weird doctrinal reasons without being earned, as when Stalinists labelled people 'counter-revolutionary'.

This doesn't make much sense. Has anyone in the history of the forum ever been "cancelled" because other non-mod posters have accused their statements as being, say, transphobic? Like, what does that even mean?

Regardless, I think it is a much larger error to make to err on the side of being transphobic or racist than it is to err on the side of being slightly too broad in what statements are labeled as such. You've got your priorities backwards.

Exactly though I wouldn't say it with canceling but referring to them as racists, idiots, trans phobes , Nazis, antisemites and a few others

Mild in comparison?

Here is Dunyain:

How is that not a racist anti-muslim trope?

"We send Palestinians money yet they dance in the street anytime something bad happens in the USA"

I argued a lot against Victor in the Russia / Ukraine thread but I don't see him saying anything that warrants a ban. I think you just don't like Victor because he isn't on your side in this particular debate and he is quite relentless.

I have lifted chillrob's 3 day temp ban and given him a written warning. Not all insults are created equal, and imo the one he used was particularly egregious and therefore warranted a ban on its own accord. However I think the discussion in general got a bit too overheated and so some people posted some things out of character from their usual style.

I will also reconsider dunyains permaban but that is a very different situation due to his long record of previous bans. That will take more time to work through. There is no need though for everyone to post their opinions on that. The other mods and I will discuss and make the call based on the entire record.

I am continuing to read more of the past posts in certain threads to get a more complete picture of the context and extent of various statements, but that will take time. And as I mentioned there is also a time lag between when posts and post reports are made and when mods will see them and act on them.

So I would request that everyone take a pause from attacking each other in the mod thread or continue to quote individual posts and ask for an opinion on them. Without the context of the discussion it is sometimes not clear as to what was really said versus implied. I think a cease fire and a regroup/strategic pause will be helpful at this point. You are certainly welcome to express your concerns about my or any other mods modding style or decisions. But as I said, it will take some time to examine the issue fully.

If everyone could just stop insulting each other for a few days, that would be great.

Thanks.

I was just about to call someone a twat waffle in the other thread but I'll hold off for a few days.

The reason for Dunyain being banned previously is always because he was banned previously.

He posted under his Kelhus account for a long time and we was literally banned for posting about zygotes in the POG politics thread. None of those posts were deleted and I could point you to them.

Kelhus has already been well litigated in the past and by both his and Well Named 's(the original mod of this forum) accounts, only one of Kelhus's bans was deserved and all of the rest were always "well he was banned before". Kelhus's problem has been that he knows too much biology for his own good and because he ascribes to too much evolutionary psychology/sociobiology....but those are not viewpoints that should be banned.

In this case, I agree that he should tone down the rhetoric some vis-a-vis Islam and I don't think that he should say that Victor would have a swastika if he could-- that's quite needlessly inflammatory. But banning him over that given the nature of the overall rhetoric (baby killers, etc), is a bit extreme.

Not assuming that a lot of posters take anything Luckbox says at face value, but just in case:

If you want to know the real story about previous bans of Kellhus/Dunyain, a good place to start is to look at the first few posts of the actual POG thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/pu...

(btw Dustin = Luckbox)

At least you got to appreciate that Luckbox's MO hasn't changed over the years:

2020 https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

2023 https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Why in the world is there even a politics thread in the Puzzles and Other Games subforum?

I haven't been there for quite awhile apart from a few threads I subscribe to, so I guess I forgot it was there if I ever noticed it to begin with. Seems like an inappropriate inclusion and just asking for trouble in a place where people mostly get along fine and have fun despite differences in politics they don't even know about each other.

You guys, can't we all just get along? ��

It goes back to the war in South Ossetia in 2008 within the context of the 2008 election and western imperialism.

Back in those days the actual politics forum was not really a great place and no one in POG wanted to post there.

So what exactly did I get wrong? You quoted some posts, but none of them are germane to anything related to why Kelhus was banned back then.