Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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that could be what he meant. charitably.
but it also could be that he doesnt care if they work or not, Merica gunna bomb.
bc they arent gonna work and we are surely gonna keep bombing.
If you're 1 day into a diet and haven't lost any weight yet does that mean you should stop? These things can take time.
How will that work when we have Netanyahu reiterating today, "In the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea."
Israel says there'll be no state, built the settlements that have killed the idea, and it's a done deal.
Netanyahu has zero control at the end
the Prime Minister during "war time" has no control. there is nothing a Zionist wont lie about.
Both sides have voiced demands and rhetoric that is impossible to reconcile with any type of negotiation. Both sides are in an untenable position. To get past that untenable position they will need to compromise on their demands. This means a lot of stuff which both sides have said is off the table is actually on the table.
Neither side is going to be happy with the outcome of this. When I said that Saudi Arabia is likely to have PA take control of Gaza it's not because either side will be happy with this arrangement, it's because both sides will be in the least awful position due to this arrangement.
Are you seriously arguing that two states is a live proposition, and there's a chance settlers will be pulled out of Area C?
I don't know if Israel will never fully give up all of area c if I'm being honest. I think East Jerusalem is even more complicated. They would probably give up area C for recognition of a United Jerusalem as the Israel capital. But that might be more of a non-starter
But the saudi deal will have provisions for a true Palestinian state. I can't be sure what it all look like. But i do believe it will happen. Truly.
Maybe I'm the eternal optomist
Both sides have voiced demands and rhetoric that is impossible to reconcile with any type of negotiation. Both sides are in an untenable position. To get past that untenable position they will need to compromise on their demands. This means a lot of stuff which both sides have said is off the table is actually on the table.
Neither side is going to be happy with the outcome of this. When I said that Saudi Arabia is likely to have PA take con
I don't think PA would survive in Gaza without an arab occupation ensuring it.
Both sides have voiced demands and rhetoric that is impossible to reconcile with any type of negotiation. Both sides are in an untenable position. To get past that untenable position they will need to compromise on their demands. This means a lot of stuff which both sides have said is off the table is actually on the table.
Neither side is going to be happy with the outcome of this. When I said that Saudi Arabia is likely to have PA take con
nope. its not both sides. educate yourself.
and just absolutely lol at asking the Palestinians to compromise on being free.
Actually it's both sides. Palestine will need to compromise on launching rockets into cities for example. Educate yourself.
they have said many times that they will stop rockets when the occupations is ended. Ive posted those links in this thread at least a dozen times.
they have every right to fight the occupation with the means at hand.
nope. its not both sides. educate yourself.
and just absolutely lol at asking the Palestinians to compromise on being free.
The Palestinians have refused to compromise for 100 years and have consistently lost wars avoiding compromise to the point that they are in this position.
This thing didn't start 3 months ago like a lot of (armchair) "experts" seem to think
If they want any type of negotiation they will probably need to stop firing rockets WHILE they are being occupied too. And I am using the more common usage for occupation, which will be far more invasive than blockading.
That type of thought process is exactly what has led to Gaza being leveled. Terrorist attacks are not a legitimate means of diplomacy. That does not excuse Israel's reaction, but it is certainly partly at fault for it. They will need to compromise.
Actually it's both sides. Palestine will need to compromise on launching rockets into cities for example. Educate yourself.
brainwashed Westerners with no critical thinking ability and inherent racism will never say that Israel should stop launching bombs on civilians and sniping protesters.
before this genocide, Palestinians were still killed at an order of magnitude more than Israelis with the bullshit rockets.
its frankly disgusting to think that Israel has any right to act the way they do from a moral perspective. at least mets and Dun dont even try to play that card.
The Palestinians have refused to compromise for 100 years and have consistently lost wars avoiding compromise to the point that they are in this position.
This thing didn't start 3 months ago like a lot of (armchair) "experts" seem to think
they offered compromises many times. just read the Hamas wikipedia ffs.
Israel should stop launching bombs at civilians and sniping protesters (if they are doing that). I've voiced that opinion multiple times ITT.
Please refer to my last post and the multiple prior posts which say that Israel does not have a moral right to do what they're doing.
Based on Ryan Grims last 20 Twitter posts. He's quite a simpleton to put it nicely when he's attempting to discuss economics. His opinion on Biden's comment seems to fit together perfectly with his level of understanding and his urge to jump to a specific conclusion. **** isn't that simple.
I have no idea whether people do that to build a base or that he is just consistently a bit tweaked on all of his stances.
Okay, Ryan isn't just consistently and conveniently arriving at a simplistic and divisive conclusion to all of his positions. He knows what he's doing. He's a marketeer who's looking to elevate the blood pressure of others on a sought-after subject to juice his wallet the very same way fox news does has been doing for years.
Do your thing, I guess, but it's going to add to the amount of folks on the extreme edges, especially those heavily indulged in the internet, who won't be able to hold an argument for their position beyond posting a michael parenti clip or black crime statistics that was shown to them.
Early Zionism simply wasn't like Manifest Destiny. The organizers were socialists and atheists. They justified displacement of the Palestinians with theories of modernization and colonialism. Their justification was that Palestinians were primitives to be pushed aside by European modernization. There were religious members of the World Zionist Organization, but they weren't the main thrust.
Bruh, it’s in the name. Christians, Muslims, and Jews have been laying claim to the so called “holy land” for millennia.
“Read hamas wiki” lmao. You’re telling people to educate themselves because you’ve read a wiki article? Lolol
Hamas is like 35 years old (again, the two sides have been warring for 100 years) and has flip flopped between committing terrorist acts against Israel and begging for favorable terms after getting hit with the bigger stick their entire history.
And I’m not saying Israel is the good guy because they aren’t. Both sides are prideful and pigheaded and generally awful.
But what is happening right now isnt new or unique or particularly interesting. All I see is this situation getting politicized during the start of a critical election cycle.
“Read hamas wiki” lmao. You’re telling people to educate themselves because you’ve read a wiki article? Lolol
Hamas is like 35 years old (again, the two sides have been warring for 100 years) and has flip flopped between committing terrorist acts against Israel and begging for favorable terms after getting hit with the bigger stick their entire history.
And I’m not saying Israel is the good guy because they aren’t. Both sides are prideful and
I mean, you could read plenty of books on it but wiki is more accessible.
you could read a bunch of books by Finelstein and Rashidi.
you could read this book too which I have not read but heard the guy on a podcast
you can also read the writings of Mouin Rabbani and his twitter
https://twitter.com/MouinRabbani
these are people that take a more historical look at the occupation and are not posting "breaking news" propaganda on twitter. but I have plenty of those people if you want too.
I would not trust a book to be objective about Hamas if the author claims they are not a terrorist organization.
