Israel/Palestine thread

Because Jerusalem is the Palestinian capital.

by Victor P

I dunno, these numbers look a lot better than anything Israel has ever done

that is a high rate of civilian death, although certainly inline with modern wars but its important to note that many of the 695 were killed by Israeli tanks and missiles.

So...Hamas didn't engage in a mass murder spree??

'Right of conquest' is not recognised in international law since WW2.

CNN isn’t telling you about the Hamas fighters hiding in tiny bunkers underground in those cemeteries.

Anyway, Netanyahu's interestingly frank rejection of any Palestinian state is going to complicate Israel's relationships with its allies, if only because he went and said the quiet part out loud. The US, the UK, Saudi and the EU are all going to treat that as an undesirable position.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-...

Yes they are both terrorist groups exploiting the population

695 civilians killed isnt mass murder? You really do hate Jews don’t you

No, because it was an incursion into a legitimate and recognised state and it consisted entirely of war crimes, mainly murder in sadic forms, and not due or proper military actions for any military purpose. You can of course argue that much of the Israeli response has also consisted of war crimes, and you can argue that the Six-Day War of 1967 was a war crime, since the Israelis had spent years preparing that aggression and knew that the Arab states were not going to attack them (and Britain and France stopped shipments of the Chieftain tank and Mirage V fighter plane to Israel because Israel had engaged in unlawful aggression, at which point the US stepped in as Israel's arms provider, starting with F-4E and A-4 jets), and you could argue that the continuing occupation of the West Bank is a crime. It's certainly a defiance of UN resolutions. British policy tends to recognise Palestinian paramilitary actions in the occupied territories, if directed against the IDF, as 'resistance', given the disenfranchisement of the Arabs under occupation, but recognises actions inside Israel proper -- defined by the pre-1967 border -- as 'terrorism'.

He was being sarcastic.

They clearly say that the borders listed are temporary and will be determined by wars and treaties. And Israel won both in wars.

Fyp

And the west bank and gaza belonged to nobody after WW2 because the partition plan was not accepted by the palestinians or any arab group. That's why the armistice agreement was signed in the first place

That meant the borders would be determined by the actual battle lines, not that Israel had a right to expand for ever more.

The West Bank belonged to Jordan, by right of conquest, to use your logic. Gaza belonged to Egypt. You are resorting to specious legalisms to rationalize ugly occupations.

Jordan was pushed out of jerusalem and the West bank. Egypt out of gaza

Semantucs

They did. The word occupied was never use
Many in the West bank became Jordanian citizens at that time. Nobody called it an occupation. It became part of jordan.

The word occupation was never used until Israel won the wars

Jordan annexed the West bank in 48. Uk and iraq recognized it.

From wiki

During the December 1948 Jericho Conference, hundreds of Palestinian notables in the West Bank gathered, accepted Jordanian rule and recognized Abdullah as ruler. The West Bank was formally annexed on 24 April 1950, but the annexation was widely considered as illegal and void by most of the international community.[6] A month afterwards, the Arab League, having received assurances from Jordan, resolved to treat the annexed area as being held in trust until the Palestine question was resolved. Recognition of Jordan's declaration of annexation was granted by the United Kingdom, the United States, Iraq, and possibly Pakistan,[6][7][8][9][10] and no objections were raised when Jordan was admitted to the United Nations in 1955.[11]

When Jordan transferred its full citizenship rights to the residents of the West Bank, the annexation more than tripled the population of Jordan, going from 400,000 to 1,300,000.[4][12] The naturalized Palestinians enjoyed equal opportunities in all sectors of the state without discrimination, and they were given half of the seats of the Jordanian parliament.[13] After Jordan lost the West Bank to Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, the Palestinians there remained Jordanian citizens until Jordan renounced claims to and severed administrative ties with the territory in 1988.

They became Jordanian citizens because there was no such thing as Palestinian citizenship and it temporary became part of Jordan based on the armistice agreement

I'm unclear what point you are supporting with this recitation of the history.

Bottom line is that people should have a vote in the government that controls the territory. The WB and Gaza Palestinians do not.

I agree the current system is bad

I already stated that if israel isn't going to give citizenship it should probably give up land

Gaza had their own government if you want to call that terrorist organization a government

The West bank does as well. At least in area a. And shared in area b.

Area C is a lot more complicated i agree. I think expecting the 400,000 israelis to leave there now is as ridiculous as expecting the 300,000 Palestinians to. So it's a shitty situation. Yes maybe a lot of the situation is Israels fault. But it is what it is now. I don't know the solution. But it's not just here you go don't worry about the 400000 Israelis

I guess my point is they were Jordanian citizens. Jordan took away their citizenship so they could become pawns in the crisis

Can you at least agree with that

Sry I misread. Didn’t see the extra ? Marks

I don't know many details of Jordanian diplomacy. But their annexation of the WB is a big part of why there's no Palestinian state.