Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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the Palestinians could be free tomorrow if they wanted
Explain.
for corpus,
2 outlets have picked up the IDF soldier terrorist attack on students. Daily Beast and Intercept.
for mets, the only Jews that actually feel unsafe on campus are these
and the only people in the USA that have been attacked and killed and maimed and hurt are people supporting Palestinians. that includes the 6 year old boy stabbed to death bc his landlord got so worked up about the Zionist propaganda for a "day of jihad". and the
What the source on this being done by IDF soldiers? (and yeah, I googled it and saw some people just say it's true without identifying the people by name or showing anything that indicates they are in the IDF)
What the source on this being done by IDF soldiers? (and yeah, I googled it and saw some people just say it's true without identifying the people by name or showing anything that indicates they are in the IDF)
also, its real funny these guys havent been identified given all the security and cameras on campus. how long do you think it would take to identify 3 people doing this at a pro-Israel rally? and it would not be left up to the victims to figure out who did it.
Ok. Not saying that's definitive of it being him or him being the person who did the thing, but "Possible ID" is certainly possible.
That's two losses for Hamas. Never will they ever take it. Imagine giving back your only leverage/win, AND fleeing instead of sacrificing yourself for the Intifada. They know their man. He won't take it.
Their civilians dying is a feature not a bug. That's the 3rd and least important consideration for Hamas.
I don't think the leaders are willing to sacrifice themselves. They have minions for that
The word "trust" doesn't even really seem meaningful if you say you trust people you don't know. Hell, there are certainly police among the Pro-Palestinian protestors.
I understand the point you’re trying to make but being hyperbolic doesn’t help your credibility.
A friend of mine was once beaten on the street in Manhattan because he stopped and said something like ‘hey that’s not cool’ to men who were loudly repeating antisemitic tropes.
My childhood JCC was attacked with bomb threats and vandalized by racists.
Every Jewish person I know has stories like this, and they weren’t all perpetrated by Zionists. There is merit to claims of feeling unsafe existing as a Jew in this country. So please, dial it back a bit with the universal quantifiers.
The word "trust" doesn't even really seem meaningful if you say you trust people you don't know. Hell, there are certainly police among the Pro-Palestinian protestors.
ofc there are police. they are patrolling the pro-peace people. and they are allowing thugs like that guy to do their terrorism.
I don't know what bullshit you are reading from bullshit sites
Guatamala moved their embassy to Jerusalem in 2017
Guatamala condemned the hamas attack on Israel oct 7
If you want to post bullshit from.bullshit sites you can go on ignore
If you want to have an actual discussion about the war go ahead
But saying the Jews should leave Israel let's me know how much you hate jews
In the washoe universe, everything on the internet is 100% fact and should be immediately and uncritically accepted. Washoe gonna washoe.
If Hamas was replaced
If Israel was officially recognized as being allowed to exist
If that society was deradicalized
And that's all a THEM thing...
They could have total freedom as you understand it. Nobody would care. They could get all manner of additional land and whatever else your definition includes. The average Israeli would line up to hand it to them. Imagine the improvement in the quality of life for everyone? No more running to rocket shelters? That's definitely the dream.
IDF soldiers literally attack a Jewish college student putting them in the hospital after days of agony but pointing it out is antisemitic.
why? well bc it makes Israel look bad. it puts Zionism in a bad light. and that is the new definition of antisemitism.
Victor you are one of the TEXTBOOK antisemites in this thread. You need to at least proudly where your crown now. It just is what it is.
dont really care what genocide supporters think of me
It's a trick, we always use it.
If Hamas was replaced
If Israel was officially recognized as being allowed to exist
If that society was deradicalized
And that's all a THEM thing...
They could have total freedom as you understand it. Nobody would care. They could get all manner of additional land and whatever else your definition includes. The average Israeli would line up to hand it to them. Imagine the improvement in the quality of life for everyone? No more running to rocke
All the things you list were given by the PLO. If that had resulted in "all manner of additional land" and a state, support for Hamas would have evaporated. But Oslo did not provide for a state or an end to the occupation. Both Labor and Likud have specified they weren't granting a state.
Does "all manner of additional land" mean a withdrawal of squatters from Area C? Because that's not on the table.
All the things you list were given by the PLO. If that had resulted in "all manner of additional land" and a state, support for Hamas would have evaporated. But Oslo did not provide for a state or an end to the occupation. Both Labor and Likud have specified they weren't granting a state.
Does "all manner of additional land" mean a withdrawal of squatters from Area C? Because that's not on the table.
Stu the jews that are in area c have to leave right? No Jews are allowed in area a. 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab but you want more areas where they don't allow jews. Sounds fair
All the things you list were given by the PLO. If that had resulted in "all manner of additional land" and a state, support for Hamas would have evaporated. But Oslo did not provide for a state or an end to the occupation. Both Labor and Likud have specified they weren't granting a state.
Does "all manner of additional land" mean a withdrawal of squatters from Area C? Because that's not on the table.
Bill the withdrawal from Gaza was immediately met with the second Intifada, Gilad Shalit, the starts of tunnel warfare, and 140 suicide bombs on civilian positions (in just 3 years). Where do YOU see the part where 2 state got a fair chance after the withdrawal from Gaza? Because that's a fantasy.
We've done this exact dance over and over in this thread.
And yes it would be trivially simple (relative to much harder tasks) to remove settlers where a negotiation warranted it for the greater good. Know how I know? Because they did exactly that with Gaza and other Israeli settlers before. When TRUE peace with a willing participant is laid out, the settlers will be moved. Till now, no good faith counter-party to this has existed. If you'd like to see documentaries on the painful process that Israel already undetook to move settlers in the past, I'll happily link you. We're talking removing fellow Israelis by force who'd chained themselves to things. They did that.
Bill the withdrawal from Gaza was immediately met with the second Intifada, Gilad Shalit, the starts of tunnel warfare, and 140 suicide bombs on civilian positions (in just 3 years). Where do YOU see the part where 2 state got a fair chance after the withdrawal from Gaza? Because that's a fantasy.
We've done this exact dance over and over in this thread.
And yes it would be trivially simple (relative to much harder tasks) to remove settlers
your timeline is off. the withdrawal from Gaza happened at the end of the seocond intifada. shortly thereafter Hamas renounced suicide bombing.
the withdrawal from Gaza was immediately met with the second Intifada
I'd say it was the failure of Oslo go garner a state that triggered the second Intifada.
But it wasn't a complete withdrawal anyway. The borders remained sealed and parsimonious supplies allowed in. No airport was allowed. Fishing limited to three miles. No right to come and go. And don't forget the conscious promotion of Hamas so there wouldn't be a united Palestinian front to negotiate a state with.
If Israel wanted a Palestinian state, there could be one.
And dragging 400,000 settlers out of the WB is a whole different thing than Gaza. The WB settlements and their placement were designed to prevent a state and it worked.
