Israel/Palestine thread

Lol exactly. Ofc this exposes the inconsistency in the agenda. If this was really a war for Jewish survival then they would do what it takes. But they know there is no existential threat to Israel let alone all Jewish people so it is just punitive retribution on a captive innocent population.

The devil advocate answer would be that's it isn't a problem to have homogeneous religious/ethnic states per se, the problem most people see with the Jewish state is that the land it sits on was populated mostly by Arabs until recently and the fact that Jews have been persecuted for a long time in many countries doesn't mean Arabs in particular should pay a land price to set things equal.

Especially because Arabs, and Muslims in general, persecuted Jews less than Europeans historically.

I mean when Spain expelled all Jews they went to resettle mainly in the ottoman empire...

Muslim states or Christian states aren't ok.

should've put it in idaho rather than in a place where many of the neighbors consider it their godly duty to eliminate jews

Is a tiny piece of land. Tiny
Jews were there historically before muslims existed.
Jews and muslims were both there around the time of Israels birth
Germany still pays reperations to Israel. Palestinians supported the nazis

I think it's tough to be a democracy and friend to the West and be a Jewish state, so that's part of it

y

Why not?

Especially a Jewish state that let's you practice your religion freely if it's not Jewish
Why is it not okay

Freedom of religion is great, but so is freedom from religion. A State shouldn't establish a religion. The first amendment is a keeper.

1a is nice but most countries were founded (or had big communities living there under different arrangements) well before that concept appeared written as such.

We are lucky we have some decent separation of church and state in most european countries as it is, even if it is imperfect in many of them, and we can't require countries way behind in the civilization curve to reach what took say Italy or Spain millennia to reach

I don't agree that every country has to abide by that

Im glad the US does and I'm glad Israel is a state. And i don't have a problem with a state that is Muslim and allows jews to practice normally. Or a Christian or hindu state

There’s nothing wrong with a Jewish states, especially since millions of Muslims and Christians live there with rights/religious freedom.

Most of the Muslims states have zero Jews. Of course criticizing them doesn’t help Jew-haters.

What do you mean by "require"? I didn't require anything. I just said it's not ok. Religious states suck. Oppression sucks. Freedom is great. I don't want the USA bombing countries into submission or anything over it though.

no comment? I guess you believe wrt the hoothies....

If you think it's not okay don't live there. But they have the right to exist

In the topic at hand, "require" would for example mean refuse to help Israel because it's an ethno/religious state in some ways.

Or blackmailing Israel with offers of help only under the condition they change x y z in their Basic Laws.

I care about people other than myself. They should be free. People should have rights, not countries, but as Aldous Huxley said "Liberties are not given, they are taken".

Ok but it's hard to hope that will happen anytime soon when even Germany still subsidizes / favors some specific religions over others.

Israel doesn't try to establish anything on anybody

Jerusalem having things closed on shabbat is no different than Christmas being a federal holiday

The israel work week being Sunday thru Thursday is actually done more for muslims than for jews.

I didnt see this until now.

basically, Israel is doing genocide. killed over 33k so far (and many more are about to die) most of whom were women and children, displaced almost all of the population, destroyed almost all of the buildings, destroyed almost all of the hospitals (a few may be working near Rafah but those will be shut down soon). they cut off water, electricity, communications (killed many workers who tried to restore internet in the last week or so), and food and now like 90% of the population is starving by whatever international standards.

Israel is primarily targeting journalists, doctors, professors, paramedics, organizers. early in the genocide they went after bakeries and bakers but they wiped all those out pretty quick.

and yet they are no closer to defeating Hamas or destroying the tunnel network. its just a massacre on civilians by an army that posts their war crime son tiktok with some of the most cringe videos imaginable.

prior to the war the Gazans were kept in what has been described as an open air prison or concentration camp where the amount of calories allowed into the strip were strictly monitored and where surveillance drones were ubiquitous (many people had never lived a minute where they did not hear the buzz of a drone). it was very hard to leave for education or even cancer.

as for Oct 7. no mass rape. no baby beheadings or burning alive. Israel killed many of the dead. Hamas killed civilians but we dont know how many, seems they wanted hostages primarily.

also, the mainstream has portrayed Yemen as attacking ships bc they hate freedom or Amazon or something but they have been clear they are doing a blockade bc they want the genocide in Gaza to stop. and they are only blockading associated ships.

Public holidays in Israel are national holidays officially recognized by the Knesset, Israel's parliament. The State of Israel has adopted most traditional religious Jewish holidays as part of its national calendar, while also having established new modern holiday observances since its founding in 1948. Additionally, Christians,[1] Muslims,[2] and Druze[3] have the right to Holiday leave on the holidays of their own religions. Of the religious and modern holidays below, some are bank holidays / national holidays requiring all schools, government institutions, financial sector, and most retailers in Jewish Israeli society to be closed, while other holidays are marked as days of note or memorial remembrances with no breaks in public or private sector activities.

As is the case with all religious Jewish holidays, most public holidays in Israel generally begin and end at sundown, and follow the Hebrew calendar. Because of this, most holidays in Israel fall on a different Gregorian calendar date each year, which syncs every 19 years with the Hebrew calendar.

Shabbat, the weekly Sabbath day of rest, in Israel begins every Friday evening just before sundown, ending Saturday evening just after sundown. Most of the Israeli workforce, including schools, banks, public transportation, government offices, and retailers within Jewish Israeli society are shut down during these approximately 25 hours, with some non-Jewish retailers and most non-kosher restaurants still open.

While it's true that Israel doesn't punish you directly if you aren't an Orthodox Jew, it stills favor you significantly if you are.

Which is still discrimination, even if of course a much lighter one than places that make it hard for you to be of a different religion than the state sponsored one.

I don't really disagree. But i think it's okay for a country to be like that

Houthis arent neo-Nazis? and Azov isnt trying to stop the Gazan genocide so?

Well, I think you said "practice your religion freely" so that would just mean freedom of religion, which lots of states have. And you're now suggesting that Israel doesn't actually favor Judiasm. So, what you're talking about isn't about freedom to practice Judiasm, you're talking about an ethno-state.

It’s sad that 2+2 continues to allow this individual to spew lie after lie after lie.

I'll try to be productive here:

1) What other UN created country does ANYONE disagree with? We've done the Pakistan exercise in this thread before and what it entailed. They were created essentially the same way. Nobody seems concerned for the Hindus of Pakistan. There's no Pakistan outrage and Pakistan threads with thousands of posts and front page CNN coverage.

2) What's the acceptable timeline on indigenous issues? How many years is the amount of years we contest or don't? Because Canada was founded in 1867, which in historical terms is really not long ago. I'm living on First Nations land myself. Nobody here is that outraged. Now To be clear, Jews are indigenous to Israel, that's why Jesus (a Jew) was born there. That's why "Judea" was called what it was called. That's why when you dig in the ground all you find are Jewish artifacts. But if I'm going to ignore all that and come to your issue, how long is the statute of limitations? I guess 76 years is outrageous, but 157 years is just life. Is that more or less the rule? When it's 157 years for Israel and 238 years for Canada, will that have been long enough for Israel?

3) The Jews invited the Arabs to stay in 1948, in writing. And many did. Might have been a different world if they all did. Israel today is evidence that Arabs can live there, so many do. So what about the alternate timeline where they all had just accepted things and there had been peace?